A letter from Bro. Haney

[Sept5SavedTeen]

About retaining people; as for the "50" who are filled with the HG and however many are baptized, let's say, when I say you can't find them in church next Sunday, I mean, you can't find MOST in ANY church (and what's the use of going to a trinitarian church once you've been exposed to Truth?). I really could have said, though, because this is more along the lines of my personal experience, the person filled with the HG or baptized would be in church for three or four services and then be gone. And it's not only this way with UPC churches, but also with the Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists, ect... Just in those other churches, they'd become a "member" or have their child dedicated, rather than get filled with the HG. Ok, so good, the UPC got these people excited and HG filled and whatnot-great! Then where are they again? Oh yeah, at home on Sunday mowing the lawn or golfing. What did they get (again in the UPC churches in my area) on a regular Sunday morning when the revival hoopla was done? A dry, watered down message, so the new convert figured, "Why waste my time?" "Why waste a Sunday morning, when I can go fishing?" And I remember Sunday's where the wheather was good and the UPC church was practically empty.
But you get a good church, with a GOD annointed pastor who'll preach what you need to hear, even if it makes him unpopular... A church that'll keep holiness... I know there are still some UPC churches like that, but let me tell you this, EXCEPT for two or three in New England I don't know any other UPC's. And it kills me to have to say this, and it kills me that I have to drive for over an hour to get to a good church and that I have to drive 7 hours for good fellowship (conservative brethren in Canada).
I also want to consider the parable of the sower. It is one thing to hear the Word preached and an entirely different thing to be filled with GOD's Spirit and to be buried with Christ in baptism. My parents have been to church, heard the Word and left and continued with their lives, I understand that COMPLETELY. But if they were to get HG filled and baptized and they then leave the faith, well I'm not even supposed to break bread with them now, am I? In fact, they're better NOW, than if they obeyed Acts 2:38 and then backslid, right?
The people in this parable hear the Word and recieve it, and it's difficult to tell exactly what happens or where they are in salvation. I can recieve the Word with joy, set out to obey the Gospel and then get sidetracked by the cares of this world. If I however OBEY the Gospel, or in some cases have the Gospel THRUST upon me, but I haven't counted the cost to begin with and I abandon Christ then I'm in real bad shape. There are some preachers that'll baptize anyone or try to get people HG filled on the spot, without explaining repentence to them and what it means to die to self. They do this mainly out of wanting numbers, excitement, a thrill, and I'm not saying they're not good intentioned but they're going about it all wrong. You cannot be filled with the HG without repentence, and you can't repent without knowledge of what sin is. But instead of that tough route, let's do "thumbs up HG"! Woo-hoo! I am so tired of that, and it happened at GC and Youth Congress. Youth Congress was especially bad, I can't think of any youth that I personally know, who was HG filled at Congress that is still in church today! In fact, I know of a UPC girl who just backslid, found out about her today.
I've got to stop my ranting. But the UPC has just got me so saddened because of it's lack of solid holiness preaching, lack of retention of young people and new converts and just the overall state this denomination is going.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

[tv1a]

Nothing like the worship of the golden calf of subjective standards and the brazen serpant of unbibilcal holiness.

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

First off, what was bolded was not in proper context. What did I write, RIGHT AFTER I said I could respect them? I think the WPF is foolish, BUT I can respect them for breaking with an org that has watered down holiness and has let go of yet another standard. Now, I can speak of my lack of experience with the UPC along the lines of physical location. I do not know how the "supposed" conservative Western UPC district is doing, however, as for the UPC in New England, with the exception of two or three ministers, you can't hardly find anything REMOTELY conservative. And of course that's subjective, and being conservative is a good thing if you are conservative, a bad thing if your not conservative, so on and so forth. But I won't even get to that conservative vs. liberal thing because the topic is Bro. Haney and his letter.
I don't disrespect Bro. Haney, I DO however believe him to occupy an unbiblical role as a "General Superintendent" and I, furthermore, believe his organization is unbiblical. That does not mean he is not my brother, or that I wouldn't recieve him into my home, break bread with him, ect. As for the hype and arrogance, I see it so strong amoung those in the UPC, that I have met. And I will say, in my three and a half years in the UPC I got around, at least in the district and surrounding districts I was in. I have fellowshipped with UPC ministers, and those in district leadership. I also considered getting liscenced with the UPC, however, just prior to GC (I think in May or so) I decided not to and I am glad I decided not to, because I would have had my liscence for a very short time, or I would have had to stop the liscencing process and wasted time.
Also, as for my age, your comments don't bother me. I WAS a teen on Sept 5th, 2004 when I was saved through being baptized in JESUS' name (I had recieved the HG prior). So you can do the math, I am a young adult. I'm not one to spew out hate at the UPC or call them Revelation's harlot or anything, but I am conservative, and I see the UPC headed in a wrong direction, therefore, I left my UPC church, and that is why I do not see holding membership with this particular group to be wise.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

[Sept5SavedTeen]

Originally Posted by SavedLou

i am really not trying to pick apart your every word but i don't get it. you said the wpf is foolish and you say the upc is unbiblical...just what organization are you or do you plan to be a part of? and if you believe KH and the upc to be unbiblical then why would you consider fellowshipping with them? exactly what do you consider unbiblical?

I don't mind your questions at all. Denominations/Organizations are unbiblical. JESUS didn't set up a denomination, HE set up a church. For that church you have the five fold ministry NOT "General Superintendents" "District Secretaries" or whatever. This church goes forward by men of GOD starting churches, as they are led of GOD, and preaching and teaching those who are converted and brought into the church to live holy lives. These men of GOD also train and exhort young men called to the ministry so they can carry on the work and/or start other churches. Churches fellowship together help each other, take up collections for saints in need in other churches ect. ect. This does not require an organization, with a headquarters, with elected men (which is democratic and NOT GOD's way). I can love and respect other blood-washed, HG filled brethren who join unbiblical organizations like the UPC, but I do not want to be apart of that or any organization. Also I see the WPF as foolish because they go from one organization and they form another. Why not just go independent and have fellowship together? You don't need to form another organization, that's the last thing we need is another organization.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

[tv1a]

Jesus fed 5000 and watched it drop to 12 after one sermon.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Jesus fed 3000 and none of them showed up for the biggest event of them all...that's not about the UPC...it can happen in your little indy pendent church too

[Sept5SavedTeen]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Nothing like the worship of the golden calf of subjective standards and the brazen serpant of unbibilcal holiness.

I don't worship standards, and you can't have holiness that's unbiblical. The Book defines holiness, not me or you. The problem many run into when they see holiness standards they don't understand is to mock or brush them off, rather than to test them by PRINCIPLES set in Scripture. There's no Bible for not owning a tv, but there are principles. If Paul wrote, "Oh, and Corinthians, never own a tv" The Corinthians would have been awful confused, said, "ok" and never would have had a tv. Then when tv would have come out 1900 years later, well then it all would have made sense, or they would have called tv something different and we'd be all the more confused. Anyways, there are principles in there, and I thank GOD for men of GOD that preach holiness with a backbone.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

[Sept5SavedTeen]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Jesus fed 5000 and watched it drop to 12 after one sermon.

Yup and they weren't buried in baptism or filled with HIS Spirit.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

[Hoovie]

Alex, do you attend one of these "good churches with a God-annointed preacher" you speak of?

[Sept5SavedTeen]

I attend a good church with a good preacher, who, interestingly enough I do NOT agree with on a lot of standards. But I'll tell you this, I love this church, the pastor and his family, even though we don't see eye to eye. The church is indep and doing better than the UPC church I came out of. After I finish my undergrad in Boston, I plan on moving and getting my masters closer to where there is the church that I do agree on most, if not, all the standards. I then hope, GOD willing, after some time of faithfully attending this church, I will be ready to start a church in New Hampshire where I will faithfully preach and uphold a conservative standard of holiness.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

[tv1a]

The same principles for televison also applies to the internet. At least that is what Paul would have preached. But you're not really interested in application of principles.

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

I don't worship standards, and you can't have holiness that's unbiblical. The Book defines holiness, not me or you. The problem many run into when they see holiness standards they don't understand is to mock or brush them off, rather than to test them by PRINCIPLES set in Scripture. There's no Bible for not owning a tv, but there are principles. If Paul wrote, "Oh, and Corinthians, never own a tv" The Corinthians would have been awful confused, said, "ok" and never would have had a tv. Then when tv would have come out 1900 years later, well then it all would have made sense, or they would have called tv something different and we'd be all the more confused. Anyways, there are principles in there, and I thank GOD for men of GOD that preach holiness with a backbone.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

[Sept5SavedTeen]

Originally Posted by tv1a

The same principles for televison also applies to the internet. At least that is what Paul would have preached. But you're not really interested in application of principles.

I am interested in principles. And I know a lot of good can be done on the internet, (ie. fellowship, educational value, ect, ect...). But I also know your good shouldn't be evil spoken of. So the good I'm doing now should be out in the open right? I'm on the computer at midnight, and I'm doing good, but can evil be spoken of me? Sure. That's why there's Covenant Eyes, an accountability system that tracks every website I go on and is sent to two parties, brethren, that I trust will correct me if I'm on something I ought not be. Is there such a thing on television? Have you ever found fellowship via television? What have you learnt from television, besides cheesy gingles and the Hollywood trash? Now I say this in love, brother. I can understand those that get rid of internet all together, but there are enough redeemable things via the internet, and enough tools to keep internet usage within accountability that the internet can be safely and beneficially used. Television can not, and has no place in a Christian home.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex