What's your view on Hell?

[1 God]

Originally Posted by diakonos

Not relevant to this thread.

I want to get to the bottom of this idea. The article is amazingly similar to the rhetoric here. The editors of the NIV articulate this idea of no eternal hell also.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Don't forget this one:



http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...1&postcount=21



Now, "Rene", are you going to start telling us the truth?

If you try to dodge, just remember, as an admin, I have access to all member's IP numbers, including the IP numbers of those who have been banned. I can match them up with each other (the forum shows me when two different screennames are using the same IP), search for their locations/hometowns, and etc.

- Did you ever previously post here under the username Sean, regardless of whatever you now claim is your real name?

- Are you related to or do you know someone that used to post on this former who went by the username Sean?

I wonder why this post was ignored?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by 1 God

I want to get to the bottom of this idea. The article is amazingly similar to the rhetoric here. The editors of the NIV articulate this idea of no eternal hell also.

I too want to get to the bottom of this. And I believe it is a very worthwhile discussion. I have confidence that we can at least sort some things out.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by 1 God

It was no more a parable than Mark 16:16 was.

Was it a parable? I’m not sure if it was or wasn’t. The best way I know of to tell if it was would be to figure out who He was addressing. Because He was known to address the multitude and it seems, especially the Pharisees and Sadducees in parables.

[10] And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
[11] He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

So, He spoke to the disciples differently than He spoke to the masses and especially the religious elite.

[34] All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
[35] That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

So, it begs the question, to whom was He speaking?

Luke.16

[1] And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.

So He begins speaking to the disciples in Luke 16. But then the Pharisees seemed to be eavesdropping.

[14] And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
[15] And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Then it seems that He is talking to the Pharisees and the context is that they are covetous, which is certainly a moral issue.

I believe that this is a parable. I believe it is concerning morality. Both the Old and New Testament are consistent in caring for the poor as a moral obligation.

So that’s my opinion, for now. Someone is welcome to provide scripture to change my opinion though. I’ll listen.

[1 God]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Was it a parable? I’m not sure if it was or wasn’t. The best way I know of to tell if it was would be to figure out who He was addressing. Because He was known to address the multitude and it seems, especially the Pharisees and Sadducees in parables.

[10] And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
[11] He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

So, He spoke to the disciples differently than He spoke to the masses and especially the religious elite.

[34] All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
[35] That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

So, it begs the question, to whom was He speaking?

Luke.16

[1] And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.

So He begins speaking to the disciples in Luke 16. But then the Pharisees seemed to be eavesdropping.

[14] And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
[15] And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Then it seems that He is talking to the Pharisees and the context is that they are covetous, which is certainly a moral issue.

I believe that this is a parable. I believe it is concerning morality. Both the Old and New Testament are consistent in caring for the poor as a moral obligation.

So that’s my opinion, for now. Someone is welcome to provide scripture to change my opinion though. I’ll listen.

Every parable that I know in the Bible is obvious. You have to ask yourself, how come I do not know if it is a parable or not? Easy, because it is not. If there is any question if it is or is not you have to realize there’s no evidence that it is. Think about it.

[1 God]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I too want to get to the bottom of this. And I believe it is a very worthwhile discussion. I have confidence that we can at least sort some things out.

Amen, it’s a heaven or hell situation. We want to preach to sinners and backsliders that there is a hell awaiting them or we want to tell them only heaven is awaiting the saved and their soul and spirit will disintegrate. We have to get it right. I will lean towards Jesus and preach the same message as Jesus did when he spoke of the situation the rich man was in. If it is true and I tell people don’t worry about it as it is only a parable, I will be in the worst situation I would ever dream myself of being in. I would be directly contradicting Jesus Christ himself.

[Amanah]

A parable is a short fictional story used to teach a moral lesson.

The rich man and Lazarus falls into this category because the details of the story do not match up with any other scripture.

The idea of people in hell being able to see people in heaven and hoping to get a drink of water from them (Luke 16:24) is obviously fiction.

The question then is what is the moral lesson the parable is meant to teach?

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Amanah

A parable is a short fictional story used to teach a moral lesson.

The rich man and Lazarus falls into this category because the details of the story do not match up with any other scripture.

The idea of people in hell being able to see people in heaven and hoping to get a drink of water from them (Luke 16:24) is obviously fiction.

The question then is what is the moral lesson the parable is meant to teach?

That doesn't make it a parable. It is not even characteristic of parables. I encourage you to collect every single parable Jesus spoke that the Scripture itself says it is a parable. Then, after you analyze its characteristic, you can go to other stories Jesus told that the Scriptures does not clarify it is a parable and see if it is.

Parables will match up with Scriptures, and also with reality. The actual story is made up. It is a story that can happen in real life, but it is totally made up just to teach a lesson.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by 1 God

There is not even a hint in the region of the passage that it is remotely a parable. If there was, I would concede. It does not implicate just greedy men, but mistreatment of others by ignoring them. The book of James calls it out too.

What do you consider "hint"?

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Amanah

A parable is a short fictional story used to teach a moral lesson.

The rich man and Lazarus falls into this category because the details of the story do not match up with any other scripture.

The idea of people in hell being able to see people in heaven and hoping to get a drink of water from them (Luke 16:24) is obviously fiction.

The question then is what is the moral lesson the parable is meant to teach?

So the doctrine is not like that. "Abraham's bosom" is not in heaven, but was in Hades, where the was a separation between the just and unjust. After Jesus died on the cross and paid for all sins, including OT saints sins, the place of rest is in heaven.