Adultery vs Fornication

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Ehud

Good morning, Antipas!

You may have specified elsewhere, and I overlooked it, so my apologies if I am asking you to repeat yourself. When you say one has to acknowledge this sin before it can be put under the blood, do you mean this as literally as it sounds? As in, are you stating that recognition of this specific instance of sin must be made in order to be right with the Lord?

Good evening, Ehud! I pray that this Friday has been blessing to you.

Before I share my thoughts on this I want to emphasize that my intention isn't to shame or berate anyone. I'm human. My understanding could be wrong, and I'm still learning. I'm only sharing what I have heard taught and what my own studies have led me to believe.

I believe that marriage is an indissoluble bond. Unless one's first spouse is dead, one commits adultery if they remarry another. The exceptions tend to muddy the waters and complicate things because the questions always begin to move away from the mark, the reconciliation of divorcees. What about sexually unfaithful spouses? What about unbelieving spouses? What about abusive spouses? What about spouses who snore? The questions and exceptions seem to drift from what we all know is God's perfect will... a lifetime bond with divorcees reconciled.

With that being said, I take the position that remarriage is always adultery. No exceptions. This way God's perfect will is firmly established and crystal clear.

The glitch is that man is fallen and a sinner by nature. We are but flesh. If a spouse remarries, or just refuses to reconcile, we become lonely. We begin to struggle with passions and deep unfulfilled emotions. And being human, we will more times than not, seek companionship and marry another.

But God's will is God's will. No matter how sincere our intentions, it is what it is. And so, when we marry another, we close the door on God's will. We marry and enter into a second indissoluble bond upon consummation and are now one flesh with yet a third human being. Now we have committed adultery. Most in today's world absolutely don't want to believe or accept this. They want what feels fair to them. They really don't are that God never willed them to have another spouse. They really don't care that God's will is that they reconcile with the their first spouse, the spouse of their youth, their first love.

So, this sense of wanting what feels "fair" and feeling "entitled" blurs our vision and we drift from seeing God's will... even if it is impossible.

And being but flesh, and having passions, and emotional needs... many buy into interpretations that bless the idea of marrying again. Some know it is sin... and yet they still break down and remarry.

At the end of the day... the majority of divorcees marry again. The reality of this doesn't negate it being a sin. And when one marries another they enter into an additional indissoluble bond with this second spouse, and in the process they commit adultery against the first spouse. In a very real sense they have become serial polygamists.

In our culture it is common to argue that one is somehow justified to do something someone really desires to do. And people have very creative and truly intellectual sounding justifications, especially when it comes to divorce and remarriage.

My concern is the soul. How will one stand before God having engaged in such a binding adultery... after a lifetime of excuses and justifications? Would it not be better to just be broken? Wouldn't it be better to confess one's weakness, and confess this sin to God in a spirit of broken contrition and remorseful humility?

I believe so. And I believe that God forgives. I believe that God not only forgives, but God gives both mercy and grace to those broken over their sin. Mercy is God not imposing upon us what we deserve. And grace is giving us the blessings and favor that we do not deserve. And so, I believe that if confession is made before God, with true heartfelt contrition and brokenness, God's grace and mercy can bring blessing, sanctity, and favor to a second marriage that would have otherwise been brazen adultery in His eyes.

So, yes. If one who has divorced their first spouse and married another wishes to be right with God, they absolutely must confess the sin and seek God's grace and mercy. If they don't, I do believe that the sin will be counted against them in the Judgment. Now, will they lose reward and still be saved, yet so as by fire? Will they lose their soul? I don't know. Maybe it depends on their disposition. How God judges sin among the saints is entirely His prerogative. I'm not God. I'm just sharing what I believe and my intentions are not to hurt anyone's feelings or to condemn. I'm only pointing out what I believe to be a serious sin, and I'm also pointing out a way to be made white as snow.

I pray you can see or feel my heart on this, my brother.

This is hypothetical, but not farfetched -- I am unsure if I am allowed to remarry. I seek the advice and consent of my pastor. My pastor says I am good to go. His instructions are contrary to the stance you hold, and thus I am now in sin. If I go my entire life never hearing your side, will I die lost?

Thank you in advance for your time.

I'm not qualified to say for certain if such a one would die "lost" or not. I'm no man's judge. God alone knows the thoughts and intentions of our hearts. Perhaps God will have a greater measure of grace for those who truly have never known about this being sin verses those who did indeed know and still clung to their justifications, exceptions, and excuses. But I think that more times than not, we as believers read these things... and we know. We often know and refuse to admit it to ourselves. We know or we wouldn't wrangle over it so much. We know, or we wouldn't crave the affirmation of our position on exceptions from others so badly. Of course, this doesn't speak for everyone. But I'm sure you see my flow of reasoning.

Many believe this position is very harsh. And for those who wish to justify sin... I'm sure it seems harsh. But where sin abounds, God's grace much more abounds. For those who surrender and realize that they need God's mercy and grace, they find an absolute certainty of forgiveness, and even blessing. God gives beauty for ashes, making their latter house more blessed than their former house.

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by Antipas

Good evening, Ehud! I pray that this Friday has been blessing to you.

...

Thank you so much for the response! I very much appreciate your time and the tone you have kept throughout this thread.

God bless, friend!

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Steven Avery

Pastors are themselves under a lot of peer pressure, and social-financial pressure, to take this position of "good to go" even in situations that Bibllically would call for "standing" for the true covenant marriage. (Yes, even if the covenant spouse is now seemingly 'happily' 'remarried'.) Either alternative precludes the other.

Understand, there are specifics that have to be determined. I am just cautioning you that this is one of the weaker areas of modern pastoral ministry.

I think the best blessing for a Pastor is to afford a job and make money through his normal job and dont have to depend on church salaries.
He is free to preach Truth ! if they dont like ,he does not loose his "job" for preaching truth.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Antipas

Hmmm...

The Pauline exception is drawn from I Corinthians 7:10-15. The first part of this passage is to believers with believing spouses. And Paul states that it isn't his command, but the Lord's...

I Corinthians 7:10-15
10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

Paul appears to be in perfect agreement with Jesus that divorcees should remain unmarried and that ideally they should seek reconciliation. And in practice, the faithful Christian will never desire a divorce.

In the rest of the passage, below, Paul issues what some call the Pauline Exception...

I Corinthians 7:12-15
12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

Obviously the question arose in the early church regarding married couples wherein one partner had become a Christian and the other remained unsaved. Paul advises believers to remain with their unbelieving spouses if they are pleased to remain with them.

However, if the unbeliever departs the union, the believer is not to protest or stand in the way. The believer is to peacefully allow them to leave the marriage, i.e. divorce.


It is my understanding that the Pauline Exception states that if the unbeliever departs, the believer is no longer bound to the marriage and may freely remarry.

If not being "under bondage" means something else, what might it mean? I'm curious about the different perspectives among us. I'm curious because I believe that marriage is an indissoluble bond. If we can uncloud the waters and explain Paul's words without turning them into another "exception", I'm truly interested to see the possibilities. Because I've been on the fence regarding this exception since I originally heard it.

amen!
under bondage, no way to mean "you can re-marry" because as you already sett it very nice, is his opinion .
7:10-15 Lord`s command for all married is the basis under all the rest issued maybe solved.
7:12-15 he continues to answer their questions and there is no way to say something different than the Lord! "to the rest I say, not the Lord"

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by peter83

amen!
under bondage, no way to mean "you can re-marry" because as you already sett it very nice, is his opinion .
7:10-15 Lord`s command for all married is the basis under all the rest issued maybe solved.
7:12-15 he continues to answer their questions and there is no way to say something different than the Lord! "to the rest I say, not the Lord"

Yeah, just like Moses interjected his own opinion with the bill of divorcement! We'd better cut that from the Bible!

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Antipas

Good evening, Ehud! I pray that this Friday has been blessing to you.

Before I share my thoughts on this I want to emphasize that my intention isn't to shame or berate anyone. I'm human. My understanding could be wrong, and I'm still learning. I'm only sharing what I have heard taught and what my own studies have led me to believe.

I believe that marriage is an indissoluble bond. Unless one's first spouse is dead, one commits adultery if they remarry another. The exceptions tend to muddy the waters and complicate things because the questions always begin to move away from the mark, the reconciliation of divorcees. What about sexually unfaithful spouses? What about unbelieving spouses? What about abusive spouses? What about spouses who snore? The questions and exceptions seem to drift from what we all know is God's perfect will... a lifetime bond with divorcees reconciled.

With that being said, I take the position that remarriage is always adultery. No exceptions. This way God's perfect will is firmly established and crystal clear.

The glitch is that man is fallen and a sinner by nature. We are but flesh. If a spouse remarries, or just refuses to reconcile, we become lonely. We begin to struggle with passions and deep unfulfilled emotions. And being human, we will more times than not, seek companionship and marry another.

But God's will is God's will. No matter how sincere our intentions, it is what it is. And so, when we marry another, we close the door on God's will. We marry and enter into a second indissoluble bond upon consummation and are now one flesh with yet a third human being. Now we have committed adultery. Most in today's world absolutely don't want to believe or accept this. They want what feels fair to them. They really don't are that God never willed them to have another spouse. They really don't care that God's will is that they reconcile with the their first spouse, the spouse of their youth, their first love.

So, this sense of wanting what feels "fair" and feeling "entitled" blurs our vision and we drift from seeing God's will... even if it is impossible.

And being but flesh, and having passions, and emotional needs... many buy into interpretations that bless the idea of marrying again. Some know it is sin... and yet they still break down and remarry.

At the end of the day... the majority of divorcees marry again. The reality of this doesn't negate it being a sin. And when one marries another they enter into an additional indissoluble bond with this second spouse, and in the process they commit adultery against the first spouse. In a very real sense they have become serial polygamists.

In our culture it is common to argue that one is somehow justified to do something someone really desires to do. And people have very creative and truly intellectual sounding justifications, especially when it comes to divorce and remarriage.

My concern is the soul. How will one stand before God having engaged in such a binding adultery... after a lifetime of excuses and justifications? Would it not be better to just be broken? Wouldn't it be better to confess one's weakness, and confess this sin to God in a spirit of broken contrition and remorseful humility?

I believe so. And I believe that God forgives. I believe that God not only forgives, but God gives both mercy and grace to those broken over their sin. Mercy is God not imposing upon us what we deserve. And grace is giving us the blessings and favor that we do not deserve. And so, I believe that if confession is made before God, with true heartfelt contrition and brokenness, God's grace and mercy can bring blessing, sanctity, and favor to a second marriage that would have otherwise been brazen adultery in His eyes.

So, yes. If one who has divorced their first spouse and married another wishes to be right with God, they absolutely must confess the sin and seek God's grace and mercy. If they don't, I do believe that the sin will be counted against them in the Judgment. Now, will they lose reward and still be saved, yet so as by fire? Will they lose their soul? I don't know. Maybe it depends on their disposition. How God judges sin among the saints is entirely His prerogative. I'm not God. I'm just sharing what I believe and my intentions are not to hurt anyone's feelings or to condemn. I'm only pointing out what I believe to be a serious sin, and I'm also pointing out a way to be made white as snow.

I pray you can see or feel my heart on this, my brother.



I'm not qualified to say for certain if such a one would die "lost" or not. I'm no man's judge. God alone knows the thoughts and intentions of our hearts. Perhaps God will have a greater measure of grace for those who truly have never known about this being sin verses those who did indeed know and still clung to their justifications, exceptions, and excuses. But I think that more times than not, we as believers read these things... and we know. We often know and refuse to admit it to ourselves. We know or we wouldn't wrangle over it so much. We know, or we wouldn't crave the affirmation of our position on exceptions from others so badly. Of course, this doesn't speak for everyone. But I'm sure you see my flow of reasoning.

Many believe this position is very harsh. And for those who wish to justify sin... I'm sure it seems harsh.

Or maybe they simply don't agree with your interpretation. Not everyone who disagrees with you is trying to justify sin.


But where sin abounds, God's grace much more abounds. For those who surrender and realize that they need God's mercy and grace, they find an absolute certainty of forgiveness, and even blessing. God gives beauty for ashes, making their latter house more blessed than their former house.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Yeah, just like Moses interjected his own opinion with the bill of divorcement! We'd better cut that from the Bible!

you know what i mean ,i never say that is his opinion. I say that was not the perfect will of God (the divorce) "form the beginning was not so". Moses jsut gave them this law to protect women because of their "hurd hearts".
And for Paul i said that he setts the base upon which he continue give advises:
10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord,
12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord:

so what i am telling you is that :NO WAY PAUL SAY ANY DIFFERENT THAN THE LORD

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by peter83

so what i am telling you is that :NO WAY PAUL SAY ANY DIFFERENT THAN THE LORD

Good morning, Peter!

Just to interject, Jesus said ask and you will receive. James says you ask and have not because you ask amiss. So unless we believe James is wrong, he did indeed say something different than the Lord. Is this not the same type of expounding Paul is doing?

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Ehud

Good morning, Peter!

Just to interject, Jesus said ask and you will receive. James says you ask and have not because you ask amiss. So unless we believe James is wrong, he did indeed say something different than the Lord. Is this not the same type of expounding Paul is doing?

No is not the same. (and nobody of them say something different.) The same Lord is speaking all over the Bible.
James explain for what he is speaking, Jesus said "ask with faith" and so James say "you dont recive without faith" and "you dont receive because you ask for carnal things" like John said "if we ask him according to His will, we will receive"
Pail from the other hand is addressing specific questions and he explain that is his opinion, but according always to the General Commandment for all married by the Lord.and of course with the authority of an Apostle of the Lord. He did not said any different than the Lord (2 verses above)

Good morning. May the Lord be with your spirit.amen.

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by peter83

No is not the same. (and nobody of them say something different.) The same Lord is speaking all over the Bible.
James explain for what he is speaking, Jesus said "ask with faith" and so James say "you dont recive without faith" and "you dont receive because you ask for carnal things" like John said "if we ask him according to His will, we will receive"
Pail from the other hand is addressing specific questions and he explain that is his opinion, but according always to the General Commandment for all married by the Lord.and of course with the authority of an Apostle of the Lord. He did not said any different than the Lord (2 verses above)

Good morning. May the Lord be with your spirit.amen.

Thank you for the response! Have a wonderful day!