Billy Graham

[Aquila]

CONTINUED...

REALLY? Wait, please forgive me in advance. Seriously no offense. There was an old sister 97 who was in my Bible studies years ago in the city of Fort Lauderdale. She knew her Bible, she understood the scripture, and had some awesome revelations. There was a Baptist preacher who wanted to interrupt the Bible study and started to present his easy believism. Again, no offense, but he made the statement close to the one you posted in the above quote. The old sister always let me handle the Trinitarian troublemakers. But this time she surprised me. She looked him dead in the eyes and told him, "son, If you have a simple, and imperfect understanding of the Bible, then shut up, and sit down and learn something. Because if your brain moved as fast as your mouth you be getting somewhere!" Brother, telling a group that you don't know what you are talking about after you argue with them with 15 or more posts, really doesn't help the argument. All it does, is raise eyebrows, and send eyes rolling.

LOL! She sounds like an awesome lady! I'm sure you guys got a chuckle out of her tenacity and zeal for the truth. There is no room for trouble makers in a Bible study, Trinitarian or Oneness. I tip my hat to her.

I'm reminded of Cornelius and Apollos.

Cornelius was a devout Jewish convert whose prayers and charity had appeared as a memorial before God. Praise God, an angel was sent to him in a vision, admonishing that he seek out Peter that he might learn greater truth.

Apollos was a Jew who was mighty in the Scriptures. And he spoke and taught about Jesus diligently. However, he only understood repentance. In fact, he was even baptized by John. This man put his life in danger, bolding proclaiming the truth of Jesus in the synagogue! What a guy! And when Aquila and Priscilla heard this man that took him in and expounded the way of God more perfectly.

In both cases, these two individuals needing greater truth were humble enough to receive it. When one demonstrates no interest in receiving greater truth, I don't see any reason to waste time with them. The only thing that will help them is prayer and God's prevenient grace which will open their eyes to their need for greater truth. In in full agreement with shutting down the Baptist troublemaker in the Bible study you described. He certainly didn't have a hunger for more truth. At least, based on this part of the story, it doesn't seem like he did. Whoever that older woman is, she's precious. Her zeal and tenacity should be applauded.

No, in plain English you are being wishy washy, and dealing with the fear factor of your own emotions.

Maybe I am. I'm not perfect and I won't assume that you're automatically wrong. Please pray for me, so that if this is true, perhaps God might help me grow into the place he desires me to be in.

I don't see it as wishy washy. I see it like this. I was born again at an Apostolic altar at 13 years old. Prior to that, my home was primarily Baptist/Quaker. It wasn't until my mom received the Holy Ghost when I was 12 that I was exposed the Apostolic Pentecostal truth. But I remember being 7 and 8, reading my children's Bible. Going to Sunday school (Linden Ave. Baptist Church, Dayton Ohio). I remember praying and feeling the love of Jesus. I remember how I was told that God was a father to the fatherless (I was being raised in a single parent home). I remember Jesus speaking to me as clear as day as a child. In fact, several times I was asked to share what Jesus told me. And I remember what it was like to hunger for more... but not knowing what it was that I was hungry for. And it wasn't until I was 13 that I experienced the fullness of that Apostolic salvation, just like the Bible says. And Jesus became even more alive to me. Before, my relationship with Him was beautiful, but it was black and white. After being filled with the Spirt and baptized in His name, that relationship took on living color. Some are still in that black and white phase with Jesus... and they think that is all there is. Let's face it... Apostolics have kept a low profile and no one really knows what we have to offer unless they here distortions of it through our critics.

I'm 42 now. Life has been quite a ride for me. I'm in no position to judge anyone. I'm in desperate need of God's grace and forgiveness, as much, if not more than anyone else. I've done things in my life, terrible things. Things that haunt me. Things I'd not dare share to a human soul, because most that I've opened up to can't understand. I've discovered that many struggle with understanding unless they've been there. I have so much that I owe God. I've screwed up so badly, I don't know how my faith remains as intact as it is. If I were God, I would have written me off long ago. And for that... I want to be merciful. I need His mercy. I'd rather stand before Him and be judged for being too loving, too merciful, too "wishy washy"... than risk being judged as not loving, merciful, or kind enough. I'm the sap that wants to think as many as possible are going to Heaven, even though deep in my heart I know the numbers will be fewer than I'd like.

Yes, my emotions are a part of who I am. And yes, they even shape many of the things I do, believe, and say. I don't deny that. However, I know men who say that their emotions don't effect their faith... but they are just as emotionally driven in their hardness and pride as I am my "wishy washy-ness". The biggest difference is that I'm honest about my emotions playing a part in my perspective. To me, faith without emotion is a faith without a heart.

Perhaps you might not understand this... seeing that your emotions clearly never play a part in your faith, approach to topics, or individuals.

Nicer than Jesus, Better than Paul, all because of unrepented sin in one's life? Worried if you don't allow the dead to get a second roll at the dice may cause you to lose a turn when God invites you to play some celestial Monopoly? You want that get out of Hell free card? This is where the First Church of NPR become the church where everything is nice. Come a sinner, stay a sinner, and leave a sinner. God loves you just the way you are and wants you to stay just the way you are. sad.

God does love us just the way we are. He loved us all while we were yet sinners. The question of God's love is often misconstrued. Many feel that God doesn't or cannot love them based on their current condition, sin, struggle, etc. We can assure them that isn't true. God does LOVE them as they are. God will always love them, no matter what they've done. For God so loved the entire world... every sinner that ever lived... that He gave His only begotten Son. His love and His mercy endures forever. However, when that love and mercy is experienced... it changes you. Now, I don't mean it motivates you to engage in some carnal effort of behavior modification in accordance to some religious legalism. It changes you in that it transforms the soul. One will grow in Christlikeness. They will grow in grace and mercy themselves. Perfection will be attained as part of the process of sanctification as they surrender to the Spirit of God abiding in the core of their being. Eh, I can tell them to dress right... and they do it... but at that point they've only done it for me, not for Jesus... not because modesty itself is an inherent reality of their identity. I believe that God's everlasting love and grace is transformative. He'll never leave you as you are. If you keep prayerful, keep seeking to follow the Spirit, keep seeking to reflect Jesus in all you are... because of His grace and mercy... you'll be transformed into His likeness. And... you can know that while you might not be everything you desire to be at the moment... you are not the person you were before Jesus. And you can also know that God loves you not predicated on exactly who you are right now... but based on what you will be... in Him.

Matthew 5:7
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

[Amanah]

Chris, we appreciate your posts, your thoughtfulness and your intelligence, even when we don't agree on all things.

Love and prayers to your and your family brother

[n david]

LOVE WINS!

This guy says so . . .



Stop reading Rob Bell!

Love Wins: A "more spiritually satisfying way of understanding heaven, hell, God, Jesus, salvation and repentance . . ."

[n david]

There is no hell or judgment. All will be saved, regardless of if they have the new birth experience or not. Just be a good person, pray, spend your life preaching and reaching people and VOILA! - you're golden! Extra grace points for being a famous christian.

LOVE WINS!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

Benincasa,


I ran across this article just googling J Dobson doctrine. I listen to JD multiple times a week in regard to parenting and marital disciplines from the scriptures. I admire the mans lifelong devotion to that. Any way, running across this little read, this person slams Dobson basically, in my understanding, as Dobson is preaching another gospel because he pushes things outside of simply believing...so with that said, your view of the scriptures has them both not born again, and lost as 2 boys kissing, is that correct?
These people like Dr Dobson that have life long passionately helped families learn the importance of striving to have godly families, godly parenting etc, from the scriptures, and you believe that same bible that he strives to base his family values off of, has him splitting hell wide open,(because he misunderstands biblical salvationwl doctrine) is that accurate?

That’s just a bigger pill than what I think I can choke down ...him reading the same bible, lifelong doing his best to be a scriptural disciple of our Savior, impacted thousands molding them into godly men and women, striving to stop abortion, etc etc , and yet he’s got a one way ticket to burn in hell.

Please respond with your thoughts on this, as well as to this following link regarding its author and to whom it is written, Dobson:


http://www.jesusisprecious.org/wolves/james_dobson.htm



.

Frankly, all any of us are doing is searching the Scriptures and trying to obey to the best of our knowledge, experience, and ability. Even among our ranks here, some are off the beaten path with Annhilationism, elements of Reformed theology, Reconstructionism, Futurism vs. Preterism, etc. If God will judge in accordance to absolute purity of doctrine... I don't see any of us making it. Because we're constantly searching the Scriptures, being open to greater understanding. Hopefully we're not just searching the Scriptures to validate ourselves. Hopefully we're always seeking to go deeper and learn more.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Salvation by works???? Yet, I'm called the legalist?

There is a difference between works of service, love, and compassion... verses works of the law, legalism, or tradition.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

If Dobson, and Billy Graham get a pass then doctrine is meaningless.

If a policeman chooses offers an individual a warning for speeding, does that make the speed limit meaningless?

Hard pill to swallow? What is even more flipped out, is Galatians 1:8 (even when enlarged, bolded, and colored) still doesn't have any impact. My lands, the Apostle Paul, and Jesus never ever taught a view which was inclusive, but exclusive. Sorry, but you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas. Just because the guys has good works, means NOTHING in eternity. This is a package deal, faith, trust in what the apostles preached, and allowing the Spirit of Truth to be your pastor and master in Jesus name.

I pray we covered the difference between the "gospel" and the "application of the Gospel".

So, did Hell prevail against the church for 1,800 years, with every "Christian" soul being lost? Was Satan's scheme to undermine God's plan to save mankind a raging success? Was Heaven silently waiting for souls, with none coming through the door for 1,800 years? And if not... can you show us a single church that TRULY believed what we do and applied the Gospel as we do??? Or did God just flippantly say, "Well, I gave them the plan in the Scripture. Oh well. I'm busy."?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Chris, we appreciate your posts, your thoughtfulness and your intelligence, even when we don't agree on all things.

Love and prayers to your and your family brother

Thanks Sis. I love you guys too! Love and prayers to all of you!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

LOVE WINS!

This guy says so . . .



Stop reading Rob Bell!

Love Wins: A "more spiritually satisfying way of understanding heaven, hell, God, Jesus, salvation and repentance . . ."

Ummmm... I wouldn't go that far. LOL

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

So, that covers James Dobson, Billy Graham, Claude Ely and Mother Teresa?

Personally, I cannot say with any assurance that any of the above will be saved. However, I also cannot say with any certainty that they will be lost. I can say that I pray that a sovereign God will have mercy on their souls, because they didn't have the fullness of Apostolic truth. In the end, it's entirely up to Him, for He alone is worthy to judge. And in anything He chooses to do, shall not the judge of all the earth do right?