1000 year reign

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Well the Civil War example shows how prayer can change the course of a nation to which we all agree. Yet because one great sin was removed was America right with God? How many in America in the 1800's were baptized in Jesus name and filled with the Spirit?

So yes we can by faith do mighty things. Yet no nation is currently ruled by Christians.

Michael,
Thanks for your reply. I certainly agree that all Americans are not right with God, yet that does not negate the fact that Jesus Christ is King of Kings. He is Lord of all whether or not all accept and acknowledge His Lordship. The entire point of ruling with Him now is to see His kingdom progressively expand:

Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even forever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

The definitive victory was won at Calvary, the rest of the Church age is a progressive fulfillment of that victory. More and more people are born into the Kingdom and accept the lordship of Jesus Christ in their lives. If people refuse, that doesn't mean Jesus isn't Lord. As already mentioned, He still has enemies during this 1,000 year reign, and our job is to reign with Him and see more souls brought under ACKNOWLEDGEMENT of His Lordship.

We do rule, but as you may recall, Jesus spoke of His Kingdom being a spiritual kingdom.

Did he have a place to lay his head? Did everyone recognize his authority? Who did? His own followers did. The demons did. Why did he not just command all demons to leave Israel along with Rome?

BECAUSE IT WAS NOT TIME FOR THAT TO HAPPEN!

Exactly. All that activity was PRIOR TO his victory at Calvary. Afterward, one of the first things Jesus did was to destroy the old covenant system of worship during the tribulation period. How was that accomplished? It was accomplished by Jesus Christ reigning in heaven and answering the prayers of the Church who were reigning with Him on earth:

Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
Rev 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
Rev 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

The tribulation was a direct result of Christ and the Church reigning.

Why are we rejected and despised by the world today even tho SPIRITUALLY SPEAKING .......by faith we are seated with Christ?

Because we are still vanquishing Christ's enemies. The war is over, Jesus has won, the rest is simply clean-up.

If it was Gods plan for us to have the RULE OVER NATIONS now why could not Paul OVER RULE satan when he planned to go visit the Thessalonian Church? Instead twice satan stopped him.

Are we more anointed than Paul was?

Let the example of Christ and the Apostles be part of how we interpret their teachings! Did Jesus expect we would have more power over the nations than he had?

Paul lived during one of the most unique periods of time in human history. Jesus is crucified and takes away the sin of the world. The religious leadership is taken away from the Jewish religious leaders and given to the Church. The tribulation demonstrates God's complete destruction of the old system, and validates the Church as the new spiritual leader. Thus, Paul DID participate in the greatest transfer of spiritual authority the world has ever seen. The kingdom was taken from natural Israel (who were in league with the leaders of this world) and was given to the Church. Paul oversaw that complete transfer, and I would classify that as power over the nations -- Jerusalem wound up completely destroyed, and their religious system left in rubble.

Or does Gods will and timing have any place in interpreting his word?

Because the sovereign God has times and seasons.

Yes, NOW IS THE TIME!

God bless.

Originally Posted by mfblume

THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME, EVERYONE! I am enjoying this thoughtful chat. Is it not great that we can chat without personal insults and attitudes?

Amen brother. Let's keep everything on target and discuss issues rather than people!

God bless.

[Sister Alvear]

If He is reinging now it is strange that billions have not even heard His name....I weep at that thought.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by The teacher

Paul lived during one of the most unique periods of time in human history. Jesus is crucified and takes away the sin of the world. The religious leadership is taken away from the Jewish religious leaders and given to the Church. The tribulation demonstrates God's complete destruction of the old system, and validates the Church as the new spiritual leader. Thus, Paul DID participate in the greatest transfer of spiritual authority the world has ever seen. The kingdom was taken from natural Israel (who were in league with the leaders of this world) and was given to the Church. Paul oversaw that complete transfer, and I would classify that as power over the nations -- Jerusalem wound up completely destroyed, and their religious system left in rubble.

Awesome, brother! Truly as God sees it!

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

If He is reinging now it is strange that billions have not even heard His name....I weep at that thought.

Yes Sister, He is reigning even now, although not all are aware or acknowledge His lordship. That is the whole point of the Church, to make everyone aware of the victory that Calvary brought. We are ambassadors for Christ's Kingdom, and people are being born into the Kingdom every day. That can only happen if there is a King ruling...

God bless you sister.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

If He is reinging now it is strange that billions have not even heard His name....I weep at that thought.

It is a sad state to see sinners. THat shows us our work is cut out for us.

He rules UNTIL all enemies are made his foostool.

Psa 110:1 KJV <A Psalm of David.> The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Psa 110:2 KJV The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

This was fulfilled when Christ rose from the dead and went to glory.

Eph 1:20 KJV Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 KJV Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

We must never look at our traditions and compare them with certain thoughts and teachings, but rather look at the bible and compare them with certain thoughts and teachings. And we find the bible says that Christ WAS ALREADY put on the right hand of God to rule amidest His enemies. Psalm 110 is quoted more in the New Testament than any other Old Testament passage, and yet look at the responses we get about it today.

Because the bible says He RULES in the midst of HIS ENEMIES, there are going to be people who do not know His name.

How long DOES HE RULE?

Psa 110:1 KJV <A Psalm of David.> The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Heb 10:12-13 KJV But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; (13) From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

When will all enemies be made His footstool?

1Co 15:23-24 KJV But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (24) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Sister, can we read these passages and still insist Christ is not ruling now?

Traditions have blinded us from the reality of what the scriptures teach, until we look at the issue with a preconceived idea that Christ cannot rule while there are people who do not know HIs name and He has enemies. All the while the bible has been trying to show us that HE RULES UNTIL all enemies are beneath His feet... NOT AFTER.

Whether you agree or not, can you see my point, Sis Alvear? Thanks for your thoughts. They help us clarify what we are trying to say a little easier.

[Sister Alvear]

I see what you are saying but I still do not think it means that but I may be wrong. I have always thought I Cor. 15:23-24 is future.

Friend, I do believe you really believe what you are writing but it is strange that we could live in a world when evil triumphs and say we are in the 1000 year reign. Like I always mention I am no Bible teacher...but I do find prophecy studies interesting and like to read them. You defend your position well. Blessings to you and yours.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I see what you are saying

You actually must not be seeing what I am saying because you then say...

but I still do not think it means that but I may be wrong. I have always thought I Cor. 15:23-24 is future.

You misunderstood what I said. Sorry for not being more clear. Those verses are future. I never said they are already fulfilled.

Nothing in verses 23 to the rest of the chapter is fulfilled yet except Christ's resurrection, the firstfruits. It's all future.

But HERE IS MY POINT: These scriptures say that when the FUTURE rapture occurs, Christ STOPS ruling. This means HE RULES UNTIL THE RAPTURE. So He is ruling NOW.

Since the rapture has not occurred, Jesus must be ruling NOW.

Friend, I do believe you really believe what you are writing but it is strange that we could live in a world when evil triumphs and say we are in the 1000 year reign.

Like I said, Jesus RULES IN THE MIDST OF HIS ENEMIES. He doesnot START ruling when his enemies are defeated. He STOPS ruling at that point. I think you ar emissing how this is what the scriptures teach.

Pleasre read this again carefully, because you are missing my point, whether I am right or wrong. llol

1Co 15:23-24 KJV But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (24) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

This is the rapture, when the end occurs and the Son delivers up the kingdom to the Father. Now, if the Son delivers up the Kingdom to the Father, that means the SON IS RULING NOW.

And these verses show the Son is already ruling now as well.

Psa 110:1-2 KJV <A Psalm of David.> The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (2) The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

When the Son sits on the right hand, HE RULES in the midst of His enemies. Not when there are no enemies.

Sister ALvear, when did or when will Christ sit on the right hand to do this ruling?

Eph 1:20-22 KJV Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, (21) Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: (22) And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Paul said he already sat down at the right hand. That means he must be ruling NOW according to Psalm 110. And He will stop ruling when the end comes at the rapture.

I think it is so easy to not really notice the details of these verses, because there is a certain paradgim stuck in our heads we cannot get past. I think you are not noticing that when Chirst sits on the right hand of God HE RULES. And HE RULES UNTIL all enemies are made his footstool. You are proposing Christ BEGINS ruling in the future, but these verses says He rules while He is on the right hand, and other verses say He is on the right hand NOW.

Why do you think the bible says He sits on the right hand UNTIL his enemies are made his footstool? And when do you think this will happen?

I used to agree with you, but started noticing these details which conflict with that belief.

Anyway, I hope you can follow my thoughts more easily this time, since I tried clarifying them a bit more. God bless!

[Michael The Disciple]

No one opposes that Jesus is the ruler over all things right now. He can and does make all things work together for good to his disciples. He uses us to pierce the dark powers of this world to bring salvation to souls.

Yet this doctrine is starting to sound closer to universalism. Jesus did not say the whole world would believe. He is drawing souls out of the world and into HIS KINGDOM. His Kingdom is different from the worlds kingdoms.

Jesus rules his Kingdom. He also intervenes and makes things happen according to his will. Our frustration with this doctrine is trying to see how it fits with a lot of scripture that shows things like only a FEW out of this world shall be saved.

13: Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matt. 7:13-14

Jesus said from the beginning FEW would be saved. Not that we would go out and sweep nations of people into the Kingdom.

Jesus is the one who gave prophecies that the Church would be hated by all nations and would be delivered to tribulation that if we endured to the end we would THEN BE SAVED.

9: Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10: And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11: And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12: And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13: But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matt. 24:9-13

I can see that as ruling in the midst of our enemies. But only if we define it that we are ruling in the ORDER OF GOD. As in OVERCOMING OUR ADVERSARIES THAT ARE TRYING TO MAKE US FALL. As in knowing Jesus personally and being led by his Spirit. Praying and seeing healings and miracles take place according to his will.

If thats how we can define RULING NOW I am with you. That however in no way should make void the fact there there is a greater reign to come.

Most of the prophecies we read seem to show the Church with the short end of the stick as concerning things of THIS WORLD. That is until Jesus comes and then WE TAKE THE STICK.

25: But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26: And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Overcomers are promised if they OVERCOME to the END they will be given power to RULE THE NATIONS.

The book of Revelation is treated as though its already came and gone. And yet the things that are SUPPOSEDLY FULFILLED find little reality in fact.

By taking an entire book out of the scriptures that was actually meant as an ENCOURAGEMENT TO BELIEVERS IN THE TIME OF DARKNESS!

Instead they are left scratching their heads and wondering how THIS CAN BE REIGNING OVER NATIONS that we are experiencing right here and now.

[Michael The Disciple]

If all this power is given to us NOW just think what it will be like when we are saved!

10: And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11: And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12: And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13: But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Or when we are made partakers with Christ!

14: For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;