Defend your Faith

[Kutless]

Originally Posted by Chan

Yes to both questions but that still doesn't mean they met in Jewish synagogues or spoke Hebrew. Gentiles would certainly have not been welcome in a Jewish synagogue.

I can agree to one of your responses.

As far as Hebrew I'm still puzzled. This is radical I understand. But so far you have been most helpful.

Would it be right to say that some of the Judaic customs were prevalent in the churches/assemblies? Look at Pauls head shaving, Tomothy's cicumcision, Pual's scolding of Peter not eating with Gentiles. There does seem to be some jewishness to the early church.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Chan

Yes to both questions but that still doesn't mean they met in Jewish synagogues or spoke Hebrew. Gentiles would certainly have not been welcome in a Jewish synagogue.

There were those who were not called Jews in the synagogues around the Roman empire. Would you consider these non Jewish believers to be Gentiles?

Ac 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

Ac 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: 2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, 3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom F34 I preach unto you, is Christ. 4 And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.

Originally Posted by mizpeh

There were those who were not called Jews in the synagogues around the Roman empire. Would you consider these non Jewish believers to be Gentiles?

Ac 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

Ac 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: 2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, 3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom F34 I preach unto you, is Christ. 4 And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.

Proselytes were converts to the Jewish faith. That's not the same thing as Gentile Christians.

Originally Posted by Kutless

I can agree to one of your responses.

As far as Hebrew I'm still puzzled. This is radical I understand. But so far you have been most helpful.

Would it be right to say that some of the Judaic customs were prevalent in the churches/assemblies? Look at Pauls head shaving, Tomothy's cicumcision, Pual's scolding of Peter not eating with Gentiles. There does seem to be some jewishness to the early church.

There's no doubt that some Jewish practices spilled over into the early church, especially when you keep in mind that until there started to be large numbers of Gentiles getting saved, or until Acts 15 perhaps, the Church was considered a sect of Judaism.

[Kutless]

Originally Posted by Chan

There's no doubt that some Jewish practices spilled over into the early church, especially when you keep in mind that until there started to be large numbers of Gentiles getting saved, or until Acts 15 perhaps, the Church was considered a sect of Judaism.

Another example was the seats reserved for the wealthy in James 2:2-3. Customary. The cheif seats in Matthew 23:6

Is it possible that by this we see that certain grouops were continuing in certain practices? He added unto the church daily....so what if entire congregations converted?

What about Paul in Acts 21:20-26 Jewish customs were definitely part of the early church.

Now back to the Talmud. Bro Chan or anyone have a problem with this document?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Right. If someone wants to come into the church but still reject baptism - then we have a real problem.

You know...not once in the bible do we see someone quizzing the Apostles "But is it necessary? Do I have to do it? Does it have to be done like that?"

Not once do we see believer putting off baptism for weeks or months. It was always instant. There was never any argument or suppositions...there was only obedience

[Kutless]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You know...not once in the bible do we see someone quizzing the Apostles "But is it necessary? Do I have to do it? Does it have to be done like that?"

Not once do we see believer putting off baptism for weeks or months. It was always instant. There was never any argument or suppositions...there was only obedience

prax I appreciate your comments and I would appreciate them on the subject of tongues in Cirinthians as well.

I don't think there are many people alive today that will "just accept" whats being said without investigating or searching scripture themselves. Which I guess would be the point of this entire thread.

Even I myself, recently have used the cop out statement that "God is the final judge". But the bottom line is that our doctrine does not give room in Heaven for the likes of Mother Theresa or Billy Graham and more broadly speaking anyone who doesn't line up with Acts 2:38 and then also speak in tongues. So when we say we are not judging I think we really are because of the doctrine that we preach. ANd I think it would serve us much better to tell people, "Ya know what? The way I see it and believe it you are going to hell and so is M.T. and B.G.

Is saying "God is the judge" allowing us to avoid making someone mad? Or do we really believe that there is a chance that someone outside our faith have a chance? Thats compromise.

JUst my thoughts. Tell it like it is! If you really believe it.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by revrandy

Great Point.. they are bound by their situation...

At what point of mental illness does one get the pass?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by revrandy

I believe as it was preached.... Repentance...Baptism in Jesus Name and the infilling of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in another tongue...

Plus getting all the extra-biblical standards right.......plus, plus

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by revrandy

Mark 16:16-18 (King James Version)
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

....take up serpents......