What is the GOSPEL?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shazeep

I think a fairer characterization, EB, is the fuller one. Of course, you might ask a question if something is unclear;
but then, that puts you in a position you don't like too much, huh, Evangelist?

Puts me in a position I don't like very much?

How about giving some clarity on your accusation?

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Yes, sorry i am not more logical, my apologies. I did my best to point to "Get Word, however you can, even if it is through OP, the way i (eventually) got there."

Get Word? (The Word was made flesh) So... does that mean you are following Jesus, and His Word?

Originally Posted by shazeep

The best thing someone could do, imo, is not relevant to most any adult that would ask this, see,
and so really, it would not matter what i said to them, if they could not hear "Go find EB's 12 tribes."

Would i invite them into worshipping Christ like a snake on a pole? No, but neither do the 12 tribes, right? So, in the same manner that i did not come here
suggesting that anyone needs to follow me or be doomed--sound familiar?--i simply tried to say what fit the concept best.
I would likely recommend Paul's path, but how do you predicate a visitation?

I would suggest that one read the Bible, most likely, starting with a version simple enough for them to grasp, and with the understanding that the Book is not the Word, and the Word is what is needed. And i would point out the vital necessity of the Book in Its personal application, and caution against using It against other people, as is the common practice. I would show them the obvious symbolism in Scripture, and suggest that there is much more hidden symbolism, that can only be revealed a little at a time. I would implant that they are the Priest, building their Temple, in their heart.

I would warn them that the Book was full of apparent contradictions, and that these would teach lessons that lead to Word in the lifelong path of resolving them.rAnd that they should be alert for the smell of death in their congregation, and any condemnation or accusation should send them running. I would suggest that they seek a Right Pastor based upon their needs, and that the Spirit would guide them in their Reading, and in their choices of Pastor, etc, if they would but let Him. I would point out that if their old pastor balked at suggesting a new Right Pastor when the time was right, then they should understand the lesson in that. I would tell them about the 3 spiritual baptisms. I would suggest that they keep an open mind, and trust that they are hedged, while also strenuously avoiding anyone seeking to cloister them, to separate them from mankind like rapists do.

I would probably go on at length, like people do, and none of it would likely matter,
or at least i doubt that it would matter much, K. You cannot accept Christ with your mouth, or a bath, either.
I would tell them that mostly it seems to be about getting over yourself, and suggest ways to see how people demonstrate that they are blind to this;
people who inevitably seek leadership positions, to feed their egos.

Well, you have enunciated your position fairly clearly here, thank you for that!

I would agree with you that we must get over ourselves but further than that, we must submit ourselves to the will of the Lord Jesus. "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus". Denying the flesh access to do the things it lusts after... this is part of crucifying our flesh, and being obedient, even as Jesus denied his flesh, and went to the cross. We must have that same mind as we deal with our own flesh.

And true, there are people who seek leadership positions that do so because of an ego and desire to control or manipulate others using God as their weapon of fear, but that is not to say that all who are in leadership are there because of ego and are guilty of such. That is a wide generalization to make.

Human nature tends to degenerate when placed in situations where pride can set itself up in the heart, if left unchecked. I would say no flesh is free from that.

However, the essence of the gospel needs be shared with those who are seeking, Shaz, and the gospel cannot be shared without the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, and it does involve baptism in water, that is a fact that you cannot wish away, as well as spirit baptism. Christ was baptized by John, and did not begin his earthly ministry until being baptized, and filled with the Spirit, even so must we do the same. That is a missing link you did not mention, and the most important one.

Why are you unwilling to acknowledge that the gospel of Jesus, the WORD made flesh, is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, and likewise as he died, was buried, and rose again, so must we in acts of repentance, water baptism, and spirit baptism do the same?

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The drunk in the morning reference is an example of similar egotistical ways of vaunting oneself up using riddles based upon the notion that Peter was mocked as being drunk with new wine at 9:00 a.m. in the morning, and Peter said he wasn't drunk as they supposed. It's making oneself feel superior when people don't catch these things and the writer does. So it continues relentlessly.

OK. I know that there are many various and sundry ways one can find things that seem contradictory on the surface, but there is almost always a plausible understanding. I agree it can be used as a way to set oneself up as having an intimate and vital understanding that others who are listening to you don't possess. That is not uncommon at all. I would guess perhaps we have all done it at one time or another - finding something in scripture that we think no one else has seen or understood, only to find out that we are not the only ones, there are others, lol.

But the patronizing attitude does get old, tiring to deal with.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

And the writer expects everyone to bow down to what they say as truth concerning who violated who, etc. Meanwhile the writer said more vile insults than anyone else on the forum. Forever patronizing.

i would be curious to see this vile insult, Mr B, but curiously, you did not bring a witness again, so waddya gonnado, right.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Get Word? (The Word was made flesh) So... does that mean you are following Jesus, and His Word?

Word was a lot of other things too, K, and with all the tools at our disposal now, you might go review all the other instances of Word in the Book, if you like, and then go see if you can find me counseling anything other than finding Word, ok, which you are trying to make Jesus into Book now, just like Book is God to you already, only you cannot even read the Book i guess, wadr, or you would not be saying what you are saying, essentially "...and the Bible was God," only just now in the flesh.

Seems to me that if i cannot convince you, who claim to be of the Book, of a simple thing like "The Book is not the Word," then maybe the best thing either of us could say to counsel a new seeker after the Gospel of Christ might be to tell them a bald-faced lie, huh, maybe send them to some atheists, if the hippies don't work out for them, what do you think.

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Well, you have enunciated your position fairly clearly here, thank you for that!

I would agree with you that we must get over ourselves but further than that, we must submit ourselves to the will of the Lord Jesus. "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus". Denying the flesh access to do the things it lusts after... this is part of crucifying our flesh, and being obedient, even as Jesus denied his flesh, and went to the cross. We must have that same mind as we deal with our own flesh.

And true, there are people who seek leadership positions that do so because of an ego and desire to control or manipulate others using God as their weapon of fear, but that is not to say that all who are in leadership are there because of ego and are guilty of such. That is a wide generalization to make.

Human nature tends to degenerate when placed in situations where pride can set itself up in the heart, if left unchecked. I would say no flesh is free from that.

However, the essence of the gospel needs be shared with those who are seeking, Shaz, and the gospel cannot be shared without the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, and it does involve baptism in water, that is a fact that you cannot wish away, as well as spirit baptism. Christ was baptized by John, and did not begin his earthly ministry until being baptized, and filled with the Spirit, even so must we do the same. That is a missing link you did not mention, and the most important one.

So where am i washing that away? I never said don't get baptized in water

Originally Posted by shazeep

By all means, declare publicly your desire to follow Christ, and perform the physical ritual as you understand it. But understand it.

I said that maybe, there's a time at some point in your walk to see that you might get what you're after, that mansion in that far away place they pointed out to you.

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Why are you unwilling to acknowledge that the gospel of Jesus, the WORD made flesh, is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, and likewise as he died, was buried, and rose again, so must we in acts of repentance, water baptism, and spirit baptism do the same?

Well, i keep asking for these denials of mine, where are they, these witnesses of unwilling to acknowledge, but i don't ever get answers here, to those questions, do i, and i don't expect i'll be answering this one, either. But boy, if i have a question here about something that no one has a clue, not the first clue, clue 1, about, i get pages of answers then, if you don't mind my saying so.

If i have given you these impressions some where, and they are not what i meant, then wadr it is on you, if you seek an answer, to give an answer, i guess. So show me unwilling, or even the Gospel of Jesus, i didn't know He wrote any Gospel, and funny, His Apostles didn't either. Huh. You'd think maybe people would get a clue, about that. Especially if their god was the Book. Wouldn't you?

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Who needs Hagee? You can't see? You can't add? You add to the Word quickly enough, so..?

i guess the form you file, when you are a 501, c3, is a form 1023...hmm.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

OK. I know that there are many various and sundry ways one can find things that seem contradictory on the surface, but there is almost always a plausible understanding. I agree it can be used as a way to set oneself up as having an intimate and vital understanding that others who are listening to you don't possess. That is not uncommon at all. I would guess perhaps we have all done it at one time or another - finding something in scripture that we think no one else has seen or understood, only to find out that we are not the only ones, there are others, lol.

But the patronizing attitude does get old, tiring to deal with.

Yes, we do get excited when we see something. It's a great temptation to feel unique, but God does not reveal something to one person and no one else. Like you say, we've all felt special about that. But when done forever to others in order to patronize, it's out of line. May God forgive us all of that.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The drunk in the morning reference is an example of similar egotistical ways of vaunting oneself up using riddles based upon the notion that Peter was mocked as being drunk with new wine at 9:00 a.m. in the morning, and Peter said he wasn't drunk as they supposed. It's making oneself feel superior when people don't catch these things and the writer does. So it continues relentlessly.

Just a question Mike (a bit off the subject) but haw do you get that the third hour of the day was 9:00 am? Considering that a Jewish day started a sundown to sundown.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Just a question Mike (a bit off the subject) but haw do you get that the third hour of the day was 9:00 am? Considering that a Jewish day started a sundown to sundown.

6am was the first hour. When the sun came up. That's why Jesus was hanged on the cross at 9 am, the 3rd hour, and the sun went dark at noon, 6th hour, and He died the 9th hour - 3pm.

It's 3rd hour OF THE DAY. OF LIGHT.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by mfblume

6am was the first hour. When the sun came up. That's why Jesus was hanged on the cross at 9 am, the 3rd hour, and the sun went dark at noon, 6th hour, and He died the 9th hour - 3pm.

It's 3rd hour OF THE DAY. OF LIGHT.

Thank you I missed something in reading the definition on the Jewish day.