Was it necessary to repeal DADT?

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Fiyahstarter

Thanks, Jason!

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Jason, you are correct. What this is about is incremental acceptance, and will certainly lead to more debauchery. Sick.

Many don't fear it at all, but embrace it. Legalization of homosexual marriage, defense of "How To" publications for child molesters, and yes even abortion is seen by some as civil rights protected by the constitution.

No.

The "Sick" part is that you and others who display bigotry against this one lifestyle are only screaming about one sin. Why don't we petition the military to disallow greedy people?? It's mentioned twice in the New Testament just before homosexuality. Why don't we storm the United States military and demand that every soldier that has even become inebriated be thrown out of the military?? After all, the bible says MUCH more about drunkenness than it does homosexuality.

But I never hear about that. I just hear a big fuss about gays. Doesn't make sense to me.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

The question is what "rights" do the homosexuals have to practice open homosexuality sponsered by the state. You guys are acting like I am coming on here saying "kill the homosexuals" but spare the adulter, fornicator, greedy, etc.

Well, basically you are. You're opposing the open admission of gays into the military. That is a bigoted position and you're being discriminatory. Period. You just are, there's no way around that. Are you saying that you also want all alcoholics to fall under a "DADT" policy or the greedy or the addicted or those who view porn on the internet? Answer that. Do you want all those to fall under the same policy gays are forced to fall under?

I likewise will fight for civil liberties, which is why I believe that the "black man" should have every right that the "white man" has, wheather or not the black man is greedy, adulterous, or hateful. [Just as white men, and all are]


I've never denied that, my position is that such service should continue under the DADT policy.

WHY?????? Why is there a need to set up a secret code for gays in the military??

Another storming washington comment, do you guys all read the same book on debate or something? Do you not see the difference between greed and open approval of homosexuality?

No actually, I don't see the difference. Neither did Paul the Apostle when he listed these things together.


This is the weird thing, you guys keep TELLING ME how SINFUL you believe homosexuality is, ya'll are essentially promoting it.

Ridiculous statement. Absolutely absurd. First of all, I said we could have a conversation about it. Secondly.....PROMOTING IT??????? I'm PROMOTING it?????? Has a screw come loose for ya there, Jason???


Good grief, the shower issue hasn't even entered my posts. But I will be the first to say I don't want to shower with a gay person. Not everyone who showers in prison is gay. Believe me, it only takes ONE person who is homosexual for something immoral to happen.

Well, like I've said before, I don't do public showers. But if I did, I wouldn't mind a gay person being in there. Why should I care? That's his issue, not mine.

You know what Mr. SMith, you've played this card on me before. What makes you think I don't love people? What makes you think I discriminate against gay people? I love gay people every bit as much as you, I don't love them because their gay, I love them because I know Christ loves them and died for them. I KNOW THAT GOD LOVES THEM AS MUCH AS HE LOVES ME.

Then you need to treat them as well as God does. And you need to get your religious values out of your military opinions. Heck, maybe we should institute DADT for everything. Let's have that policy for restaurants, car dealerships, hotels (ick...I think that guy in the room next door is gay, let's run for the hills), gas stations, and for sure, churches. Yeah, let's have DADT for church. That'll keep'em out.

I'm all for reaching out to all people. Incarcerated, homeless, abused, addicts, and even homosexuals. I'm not afraid of their sin, anymore than when I go to the county jail and preach to rapists, theives, and murderers, and there's probably some homosexuals there.

Just because I don't speak for their right to sin and the government make me approve of it, doesn't mean I don't love them.

I love your zeal for people. Please don't think or accuse me of not loving someone because I don't approve of them having free reign to practice their sin. The more sin is suppressed and considered shameful the better. They already practice homosexuality, its sin and they need repentance, they don't need us to remove the stigma from it.

I didn't say you didn't love them, but if you do, act it out, don't just say it. The last 12 Sundays or so, a young man who is gay has sit next to my family at church. It's his first pursuit of God since his teenage years when he was put on the street by his family. You should try it sometime....it just might have an incredible impact on the way you see people like him.

I know you would, I have no doubt. Know that I would do the same for you.
However, like I told Dan, my affection for you guys doesn't mean I'm going to sit here quietly and promote sinful things. Paul openly refuted Peter because Peter was wrong. You guys are WRONG n this one (and a couple others ) and I will refute you, but like as Peter and Paul affectionately referred to each other as bretheren, dispite differences, so long as you guys are preaching righteousness (as you both say you do) then I see no need to de-classify you guys as christians.

No, you THINK we're wrong. You should clarify that. In your opinion we're wrong. You can't say we are for sure. Heck, in my opinion you're wrong.

Which is why I am all the more befuddled that you men, as christian men, have taken the stance you have.

So you're "Befuddled" because we're advocating that gays have the right to serve in the military??? SERIOUSLY????

Me too. (see tithing, standards, 3 step salvation, etc)

But I think there is a danger that always taking an unpopular opinion turns into a novelty, to where ones habit is to be on the anti-establishment side of things. Sometimes it seems like thats what your doing, which is why I asked if your posting for shock value.

I've never been more serious. I have a passion for people and it causes a complete transformation of life.

Likewise

Iron sharpens Iron. Such discusssions here are helpful for when the topics come up in "real life".

Yes, I believe they're helpful too, but earlier, you said such discussions and the positions I and a few are taking are why many are leaving the forum. If me saying that gays have a right to serve in the military are running people off.....so be it. Goodbye and good riddance.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

No.

The "Sick" part is that you and others who display bigotry against this one lifestyle are only screaming about one sin. Why don't we petition the military to disallow greedy people?? It's mentioned twice in the New Testament just before homosexuality. Why don't we storm the United States military and demand that every soldier that has even become inebriated be thrown out of the military?? After all, the bible says MUCH more about drunkenness than it does homosexuality.

But I never hear about that. I just hear a big fuss about gays. Doesn't make sense to me.

Bigots,Homophobes, etc. Like I said to DA(DT) name calling is normally a desperate tactic meant to take the focus OFF of the opposing persons argument and onto their character.

Furthermore, I've already answered the weak argument that we only care about homosexuality, and no other sin, talk about a red herring. Yeah thats it. We need a forum sticky: "Attn: AFF posters we do not approve of homosexual activity, you are however free to lie, steal, cheat, commit adultery, fornication, idolatry, slander, gossip, covet, and murder--just don't commit homosexuality, because we're against THAT ONE."

However, the Bible plainly makes a distinction of sexual sins amongst all other sins:

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body

And we know that amongst sexual sin, while fornication is damnable as well as adultery, homosexuality is among the most heinous, perverse, unnatural, ungodly sins known to man. It is used to describe man at his very worst point, in his most debased reprobate state:

Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator , who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another ; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet . 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient ; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousnes

You know there are many more scriptures than this in both the Old and New Testaments, but these two are sufficient for the point, which is NOT that homosexuality is the only sin that matters (good grief), BUT that sexual sin is on a different level than other sin in the EFFECTS that it has one the person comitting the sin, their partner, and on society as a whole, because it is agianst God's natural order (no other sin is so blatantly against the order of creation) it is self worship, and there is a just punishment (veneral disease) that often results from the activity.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Bigots,Homophobes, etc. Like I said to DA(DT) name calling is normally a desperate tactic meant to take the focus OFF of the opposing persons argument and onto their character.

Furthermore, I've already answered the weak argument that we only care about homosexuality, and no other sin, talk about a red herring. Yeah thats it. We need a forum sticky: "Attn: AFF posters we do not approve of homosexual activity, you are however free to lie, steal, cheat, commit adultery, fornication, idolatry, slander, gossip, covet, and murder--just don't commit homosexuality, because we're against THAT ONE."

However, the Bible plainly makes a distinction of sexual sins amongst all other sins:

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body

And we know that amongst sexual sin, while fornication is damnable as well as adultery, homosexuality is among the most heinous, perverse, unnatural, ungodly sins known to man. It is used to describe man at his very worst point, in his most debased reprobate state:

Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator , who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another ; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet . 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient ; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousnes

You know there are many more scriptures than this in both the Old and New Testaments, but these two are sufficient for the point, which is NOT that homosexuality is the only sin that matters (good grief), BUT that sexual sin is on a different level than other sin in the EFFECTS that it has one the person comitting the sin, their partner, and on society as a whole, because it is agianst God's natural order (no other sin is so blatantly against the order of creation) it is self worship, and there is a just punishment (veneral disease) that often results from the activity.

You just get ridiculouser and ridiculouser (I have to make up new words just to describe it).

If you wanna pull out verses to shout at your favorite sin, I can yank even more that talk about mine. What's your point by posting this stuff? You can my argument call it weak, red herring, whatever you like....fact is, what I'm saying is true and you've answered none of my points I made about it. I feel sad for you, Jason. That's not a putdown seeking a rebuttal, it's just the truth. You were so close and yet you sound so far.

As soon as you want to develop a DADT policy for all other sins, I'll drop the "bigotry" tag.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

Yes, I believe they're helpful too, but earlier, you said such discussions and the positions I and a few are taking are why many are leaving the forum. If me saying that gays have a right to serve in the military are running people off.....so be it. Goodbye and good riddance.

How am I supposed to reply when you left your quotes in my quote box, I hit quote and all I get is your good riddance sentiments.

Also, I didn't say DADT was the reason conservatives we're leaving, but the militant liberlism that often times goes unchecked around here, or drowns out a conservative voice. Thats what causes people to leave, the promotion of values which are anti-biblical and ungodly in an over bearing, COMBINED with the attitude of if your don't agree with what I say your a fool, a bigot, self righteous pharisee, etc.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

You just get ridiculouser and ridiculouser (I have to make up new words just to describe it).

If you wanna pull out verses to shout at your favorite sin, I can yank even more that talk about mine.

I am simply giving you scripture. Am I out of context, am I wrong, then show me with scripture. While your doing it show me where homosexuals have "rights" to openly practice their homosexuality.

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

What's your point by posting this stuff? You can my argument call it weak, red herring, whatever you like....fact is, what I'm saying is true and you've answered none of my points I made about it.

What points have you made? I don't think I've seen you actually make a point, you've just offered your opinions.

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

I feel sad for you, Jason. That's not a putdown seeking a rebuttal, it's just the truth. You were so close and yet you sound so far.

No need to feel sad for me. Your feeling sad for me because you think I am steeped in legalism, will never truly love people, and will miss out. I can assure you God is doing amazing things in my life by His grace, and I have been able to reach out to lost and hurting folks more and more, and look forward to greater oppertunties in 2011 to work on the streets, hopefully homeless shelters, and many such venues. You are not rightly discerning between a love for [all] people, and a desire to see the nation hold onto the last little bit of fidelity we have as a culture. I can assure you there is ZERO hate in my heart for homosexuals, God will judge me, knowing the secrets, intents, and thoughts of my heart and mind. However to promote ANY activity which is ungodly is a terrible mistake. Did you miss my points to DA about porn and abortion? You said you didn't read certain posts of mine. I'm not arguing only against homosexuality, I am arguing against LEGALIZING any sin.

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

As soon as you want to develop a DADT policy for all other sins, I'll drop the "bigotry" tag.

Mr Smith, this is not a point, but an emotional argument.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

How am I supposed to reply when you left your quotes in my quote box, I hit quote and all I get is your good riddance sentiments.

Also, I didn't say DADT was the reason conservatives we're leaving, but the militant liberlism that often times goes unchecked around here, or drowns out a conservative voice. Thats what causes people to leave, the promotion of values which are anti-biblical and ungodly in an over bearing, COMBINED with the attitude of if your don't agree with what I say your a fool, a bigot, self righteous pharisee, etc.

You can answer by copying and pasting. But if you wouldn't write novels in 96 different quotes, it would simplify things.

"Militant liberalism"???????? That's insulting and I don't appreciate it coming from a supposed "Friend." So now I'm a "militant liberal" because I'm advocating allowing gays to serve in the military? You're either drinking too much coffee, thus throwing the rhetoric into overdrive, or you don't have a dang clue what a real "militant liberal" is.

Saying that gays should be allowed to serve in the military is "Anti-biblical"???? Can you dig up that verse, please? Go grab your Strong's and get back to me with that verse. I'd like to read it.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

I am simply giving you scripture. Am I out of context, am I wrong, then show me with scripture. While your doing it show me where homosexuals have "rights" to openly practice their homosexuality.

So what would you like for us to do, Jason?? Would you like for the United States to pass a law that all gays must die? Should we exterminate them? If gays do not have a so-called "right" to practice their sin, should we pass laws against the practice and then imprison them if they break the law? Just what are you suggesting with this comment? I don't get it.

What points have you made? I don't think I've seen you actually make a point, you've just offered your opinions.

I've made quite a few and you've answered hardly any of them. This is still a discussion about allowing gays to serve in the military. Nothing more, nothing less, and your attempt to make it otherwise is useless. In the framework of this discussion, that's the only angle I'm going to really discuss.

No need to feel sad for me. Your feeling sad for me because you think I am steeped in legalism, will never truly love people, and will miss out. I can assure you God is doing amazing things in my life by His grace, and I have been able to reach out to lost and hurting folks more and more, and look forward to greater oppertunties in 2011 to work on the streets, hopefully homeless shelters, and many such venues. You are not rightly discerning between a love for [all] people, and a desire to see the nation hold onto the last little bit of fidelity we have as a culture. I can assure you there is ZERO hate in my heart for homosexuals, God will judge me, knowing the secrets, intents, and thoughts of my heart and mind. However to promote ANY activity which is ungodly is a terrible mistake. Did you miss my points to DA about porn and abortion? You said you didn't read certain posts of mine. I'm not arguing only against homosexuality, I am arguing against LEGALIZING any sin.

Some of your posts are just too long. Sorry, I can't stick with them. If you publish a book of your opinions, I'll consider buying one. But here? Too long. And again, to repeatedly accuse me of "promoting any activity which is ungodly" is a LIE and you should make that right. I DO NOT appreciate you continually making that misstatement. It's a flat out untruth.

Mr Smith, this is not a point, but an emotional argument.

Nope, it's not, it's a point of fact.