Where do the lost spend eternity? Really!

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I am disturbed you would find it disturbing.
Peter had a vision...who was in control?
daniel fell as dead...who was in control?
John too....who was in control?

When Paul was taken up into the third heavens...who was in control?

When they spoke in tongues on the day of Pentecost....how do you think that worked? They read it from a book? They Holy Ghost gave them utterance? They heard words and repeated them?

The same argument can justify slithering like snakes and being "drunk" in the Spirit.

OK, neither of us will change the other's mind here, obviously. I gave you my thoughts on the issue, and I accept yours. You could be right, that when you lost the ability to control your speech, it was in fact the Holy Spirit controlling you.

Now I have a question about something else you said, that you were "expecting it for more than 6 months." Was that the time from your repentance and water baptism, or what? Why do you think it took so long? I have always wondered why it doesn't just happen, as soon as it is asked for. Sure, God is sovereign, and He can do whatever He wants for His own reasons. But if, as I think Apostolics teach, salvation doesn't really happen until the filling and initial evidence, isn't it strange that God would keep you waiting so long? (Maybe you don't believe that, yourself, but I think many here do, don't they?)

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

No, I don't. Nor did I when it first happened to me.

I was praising God and my lips were trembling on their own and I kept trying to say something in english and my tongue and lips would not cooperate with me

yeah, I know what you mean. I was completely lost.. all surrounding noise was gone.. and I could hear myself speaking to God in English.. then a sound came in.. I could hear the people rejoicing.. then I heard myself speaking in tongues.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Timmy

The same argument can justify slithering like snakes and being "drunk" in the Spirit.

Please show me where the bible speaks of slithering like snakes or being drunk in the spirit...

OK, neither of us will change the other's mind here, obviously. I gave you my thoughts on the issue, and I accept yours. You could be right, that when you lost the ability to control your speech, it was in fact the Holy Spirit controlling you.

Well I certainly did not make it up. Can you answer my question? How do you think it happened in Acts and when Paul mentions tongues? They read it from a book? They heard words and repeated it? They just faked it? God took over? What?

Now I have a question about something else you said, that you were "expecting it for more than 6 months." Was that the time from your repentance and water baptism, or what?

Yes

Why do you think it took so long?

Not sure. Lack, of faith. Misconceptions about what to expect or not to expect.

I have always wondered why it doesn't just happen, as soon as it is asked for.

I think a lot of it has to do with us. Look at Acts where the Samaritans did not receive it yet...they needed the Apostles to come and pray for them.

Sure, God is sovereign, and He can do whatever He wants for His own reasons. But if, as I think Apostolics teach, salvation doesn't really happen until the filling and initial evidence, isn't it strange that God would keep you waiting so long?

I'd have to agree that it is God keeping someone waiting for so long in order to answer that question and obviously I do not.

(Maybe you don't believe that, yourself, but I think many here do, don't they?)

That it's God keeping them waiting or that speaking in tongues is a necessary pre-requisite to being saved?

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Please show me where the bible speaks of slithering like snakes or being drunk in the spirit...

It's not there. But some people do justify such things by saying God is controlling them. Don't put God in a box, they say. But you're right, tongues is not the same thing. That does appear in the Bible. The quesion is whether it is still valid for today, and this is where there are differing opinions.

Well I certainly did not make it up. Can you answer my question? How do you think it happened in Acts and when Paul mentions tongues? They read it from a book? They heard words and repeated it? They just faked it? God took over? What?

I don't think it was fake, in the NT. I don't know the exact mechanisim, except that the Spirit gave the utterance -- somehow.

That it's God keeping them waiting or that speaking in tongues is a necessary pre-requisite to being saved?

That tongues is necessary for salvation.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Timmy

It's not there. But some people do justify such things by saying God is controlling them. Don't put God in a box, they say. But you're right, tongues is not the same thing. That does appear in the Bible. The quesion is whether it is still valid for today, and this is where there are differing opinions.



I don't think it was fake, in the NT. I don't know the exact mechanisim, except that the Spirit gave the utterance -- somehow.



That tongues is necessary for salvation.

Timmy are you a Cessationist??????????????????????

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Timmy

It's not there. But some people do justify such things by saying God is controlling them. Don't put God in a box, they say. But you're right, tongues is not the same thing. That does appear in the Bible. The quesion is whether it is still valid for today, and this is where there are differing opinions.

That is irrelevant. We are discussing tongues and tongues is biblical.

I don't think it was fake, in the NT. I don't know the exact mechanisim, except that the Spirit gave the utterance -- somehow.

Think about it....somehow they yielded control to someone else....I'll let you ponder that

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Timmy are you a Cessationist??????????????????????

Maybe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

That is irrelevant. We are discussing tongues and tongues is biblical.

Think about it....somehow they yielded control to someone else....I'll let you ponder that

"Gave the utterance" may or may not imply that they yielded control. They may have retained control and been able to stop when they wanted. That would be consistent with other scriptures, such as the fruit of the Spirit (... self-control ...) and the spirit of the prophet being subject to the prophet. But I grant that you could be right about this incident.

As for today, I think expectations and suggestion can be very powerful. Hypnosis, on a willing subject, can result in seemingly losing control.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Maybe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you a Campbellite?????????????????????????????

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Timmy

"Gave the utterance" may or may not imply that they yielded control. They may have retained control and been able to stop when they wanted. That would be consistent with other scriptures, such as the fruit of the Spirit (... self-control ...) and the spirit of the prophet being subject to the prophet. But I grant that you could be right about this incident.

Uh....been able to stop when they wanted to...and yet allowing the Spirit to speak through them DOES in fact mean they yielded control

As for today, I think expectations and suggestion can be very powerful. Hypnosis, on a willing subject, can result in seemingly losing control.

Get alone in your bed room and pray. I know folks that got it praying in their car. This hypnosis stuff is baloney. But yes there is a lot of auto suggestion, like when Benny Hinn makes the front several rows all fall down...that or it's arranged. But people are still receiving the baptism despite the players like him and you can to....assuming what you got the first time was not it. What led you again to decide you faked it?