I'm being bewitched.

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Well then, good for Mark. If he's a friend of yours then he's going to be okay by me.

Yes, Mark and his wife are friends of mine. Not that it matters to me if he's ok by you.

But y'all agree far more than you disagree. I was kind of surprised by your response to him cuz I have spoken with you and I know we're not that far off..and Mark and I aren't that far off.

[Flutecrafter]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Nib's position is that if we don't agree with him (her?) then we are "calling God a liar." This is tantamount to calling oneself a "god." Really problematic "theologies" at work here.

'Toot thinks that his "make-believe" superpowers have buttons for both "Good" and "Evil." Remember 'Toot...



"YOU MUST ONLY USE THESE POWERS FOR GOOD!"

It would be interesting to hear more about the product positioning of Flutemaker's "ministry."

What are you selling, bro?

This tandem is an interesting new feature. They converse with one another like sock puppets however, so beware.

You should really read what I write instead of making stuff up in your head
to argue against while trying to attribute it to me.

You have stated a position that is directly opposite of Scripture.
(hint: this is where you are opposing God.)
Much less important, it is opposite of the experiences of my life.
I have made it plain time and again that I do not use magik anymore, and for
you to continually encourage me to do so is rather foolish.

The ministry I am in doesn't sell anything, we tell people about Jesus,
and help them however we can. Sometimes I try to take time to educate the
church about the realities of neo-paganism and witchcraft:
What it really is as opposed to the church myths that abound on the topic.
Sometimes, like here, that effort seems to be wasted time.

[Aquila]

Pel, I personally don't believe in "spells" either. Most people would define a "spell" as mysteriously using some form of "energy" to enfluence reality. Honestly, I think that as far as this goes, it's just the power of suggestion. That's why an individual must believe in it for it to effect them.

However, I believe that the "real deal" isn't the mysterious use of some form of "energy", but rather unleashing spiritual forces into the life of another. These spiritual forces (demons) can effect people rather they believe in them or not. In fact... demonic enfluence is far stronger, and more subtle, among those who do not believe.

[Flutecrafter]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Pel, I personally don't believe in "spells" either. Most people would define a "spell" as mysteriously using some form of "energy" to enfluence reality. Honestly, I think that as far as this goes, it's just the power of suggestion. That's why an individual must believe in it for it to effect them.

Then, I reckon you haven't been paying attention either.
*shrugs*
Believe as you wish.

[Nibenon]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Pel, I personally don't believe in "spells" either. Most people would define a "spell" as mysteriously using some form of "energy" to enfluence reality. Honestly, I think that as far as this goes, it's just the power of suggestion. That's why an individual must believe in it for it to effect them.

However, I believe that the "real deal" isn't the mysterious use of some form of "energy", but rather unleashing spiritual forces into the life of another. These spiritual forces (demons) can effect people rather they believe in them or not. In fact... demonic enfluence is far stronger, and more subtle, among those who do not believe.

Question, If you must believe in it for it to effect you, then how did Simon in Acts hold an entire city under his sway? Also, Energy is an integral part of everything we do. Ask a professional martial artist. They will tell you the effects of Energy, beit Ki, chi, chakra, or any other term. Spells are real. And many are affected by them. Consider this. If you wanted to harm someone, would you tell them about it so that they would be on their guard? No. Same with spells. You don't inform them you are casting one on them, so you can capture them more easily. It's not in the power of suggestion. Most magik comes from demonic forces. Therefore by your "real deal" you are contradicting yourself.

~Paul

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Nibenon

Question, If you must believe in it for it to effect you, then how did Simon in Acts hold an entire city under his sway? Also, Energy is an integral part of everything we do. Ask a professional martial artist. They will tell you the effects of Energy, beit Ki, chi, chakra, or any other term. Spells are real. And many are affected by them. Consider this. If you wanted to harm someone, would you tell them about it so that they would be on their guard? No. Same with spells. You don't inform them you are casting one on them, so you can capture them more easily. It's not in the power of suggestion. Most magik comes from demonic forces. Therefore by your "real deal" you are contradicting yourself.

~Paul

In all honesty, I'll have to look more deeply into it. I've not heard it approached from that angle. Would you mind me getting back with you?

[coadie]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Are you suggesting it's psychosomatic?

Psychogenic. It is a little different in etiology

[Nibenon]

Originally Posted by Aquila

In all honesty, I'll have to look more deeply into it. I've not heard it approached from that angle. Would you mind me getting back with you?

Thats perfectly fine. ^_^

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

Yes, Mark and his wife are friends of mine. Not that it matters to me if he's ok by you.

But y'all agree far more than you disagree. I was kind of surprised by your response to him cuz I have spoken with you and I know we're not that far off..and Mark and I aren't that far off.

Originally Posted by Flutecrafter

You should really read what I write instead of making stuff up in your head
to argue against while trying to attribute it to me.

You have stated a position that is directly opposite of Scripture.
(hint: this is where you are opposing God.)
Much less important, it is opposite of the experiences of my life.
I have made it plain time and again that I do not use magik anymore, and for
you to continually encourage me to do so is rather foolish.

The ministry I am in doesn't sell anything, we tell people about Jesus,
and help them however we can. Sometimes I try to take time to educate the
church about the realities of neo-paganism and witchcraft:
What it really is as opposed to the church myths that abound on the topic.
Sometimes, like here, that effort seems to be wasted time.

See nahkoe? I made a simple assertion and Mark and his kin leapt on me saying that I "didn't even believe the Word of God." Challenging the efficacy of "magick" is obviously a very tender nerve here.

Mark, with respect, I think you do use a sort of "magic" - a type that allows you to conjure up hallucinations alleging that I "continually encourage" you to use "magick." My simple challenge for you to "prove" your assertions could hardly be construed as "encouraging you continually" to revert to your past life of dependence upon whatever it was that you call "magick."

Sorry bro. You came on this forum like a bull in a china shop without even taking time to read the forum rules, much less anything that I have posted. If you had taken the time you would have recognized how far out of bounds your silly and provocative assertions are. I or anyone else could, for example, flag this post of yours and an admin would most likely give you an infraction for your harsh and condemning tone. One of the long standing forum rules is that you don't belittle or condemn another person's standing or relationship with God because you disagree with their opinion.

I've spoken to nahkoe for years on this forum and have come to count her as a friend. Her mere assertion of friendship for you was enough for me to put aside your churlishness and to move on. Such is my respect for nahkoe. I'm willing to give it another chance, if you are.

We discuss things on this forum. If you have an opinion or even an experience that you think is relevant to a discussion, by all means share. If you instead choose to attack - then don't be such a baby when someone responds to your aggression.

And still, my original assertion that engendered your hostility still unassailed. Care to take a turn at answering it?

[RandyWayne]

And here is the link again.

The James Randi Million Dollar challenge.
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

The Foundation is committed to providing reliable information about paranormal claims. It both supports and conducts original research into such claims.

At JREF, we offer a one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event. The JREF does not involve itself in the testing procedure, other than helping to design the protocol and approving the conditions under which a test will take place. All tests are designed with the participation and approval of the applicant. In most cases, the applicant will be asked to perform a relatively simple preliminary test of the claim, which if successful, will be followed by the formal test. Preliminary tests are usually conducted by associates of the JREF at the site where the applicant lives. Upon success in the preliminary testing process, the "applicant" becomes a "claimant."

To date, no one has passed the preliminary tests.