Ministries for women porn addicts

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

My point of view: For a woman that has a tendency toward "jealousy" and "competitiveness" toward her man, this would not work very well, IMO. Ask me? I am just that kind of woman! And it doesn't bother me one bit.

If you want to be intimate with a French maid, leave the keys to the house because it won't belong to you anymore - after I contact my lawyer. At that point, everything you have worked for now belongs to me!

A French Maid is not a specific person. It's a role.
Some folks need to go through the Sex On Sundays series.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

Your position places biology above biblical commandment. God fully recognizes that younger people have stronger biological urges than older. But his commandments are for all, not simply the old. When Paul said that God provides a way of escape for those tempted, that is not simply a promise for the old, but for all. While I agree that "these human needs" are universal, the behavior is not condoned by God.

Yes, I'm familiar with Dr. Dobson's position on this, and I think he's mistaken. Basically, he has stated that he sees nothing wrong with pre-married adolescent males engaging in "self gratification", but that it would be wrong for them to continue this behavior after marriage. Here's why I disagree with his first assertion:
1)- Dr. Dobson acknowledges that human males are aroused via visual stimulation (looking at women, etc.)

2)- Unmarried males have no partner which they can fantasize about during self-gratification, therefore, they are prone to fantasize about women to whom they are not married.

3)- Since Jesus said that if a man (including young males) looks on (which includes fantasizing) a woman to lust after her, he has already committed adultery. This would extend to unmarried men fantasizing over unmarried women, which would be fornication- and still sin.

4)- Once a behavior such as self gratification is established in a young male, it does have a high probability of being continued into adulthood and into the marriage relationship.

5)- Married adult males who previously fantasized about women during self-gratification before marriage have a high probability of continuing this behavior once married. This is adultery.

So, what is the answer for young males (or females) who have "overwhelming" urges they can't contain? As you so adeptly suggested: PRAY PRAY PRAY FAST FAST FAST. This is not just for young people, but individuals of all ages. Since when are we, as a temple of the Holy Ghost, permitted to be ruled by our carnal nature? You keep suggesting that since these type of urges are "natural", that somehow it's okay to fulfill them. That's simply not Bible. Paul said he died daily! He said he brought under his body, and kept it under subjection. We are not to be ruled by our passions and lusts. That's called carnality! I don't care what age someone might be. If they've received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, then God gives them power over the flesh. If they do not practice this, then they are living in carnality.

I was filled with the baptism of the Holy Ghost at the age of 16. I did not engage in carnal behavior because I PRAYED AND FASTED. When my wife and I got married, both our virginity was in tact. That sort of thing is possible because the Holy Ghost makes it possible. "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh."

Excellent post. That's why Paul recommended marriage instead of being "inflamed with lust." (per Strong's) If a man can't remain pure while single, he needs to marry rather than "burn."

In marriage, I completely disagree with the idea that a man or woman should gratify themselves if the spouse isn't available or willing. Science shows that while men have a higher sex drive in their younger years, it's common for women to have a higher sex drive when she's in her 30's. So either their sex drives will even out, or the woman's can actually be greater than her husband's, reversing the original problem.

Men and women should "defraud not" their spouses to prevent sexual sin. That means if my husband wants sex more than I do, I do my best to satisfy his needs. If there comes a point where our situations are reversed, he should do his best to satisfy my needs. In a marriage you work together to make sure both people are satisfied. I think it's fairly obvious how that's the most rewarding method.

I love how Dr. Laura Schlessinger responds to women who call in to her show complaining about being too tired or uninterested in sex. She basically responds with total disbelief, and recommends they try sex as a relaxation method. LOL!!!!! It sounds so simple, but really--why all the objections to sex on a regular basis? That should be an enjoyable part of marriage, and it seems like so many women dread it. If a man is married to a woman who doesn't like sex, then I feel bad for him, BUT he still has an obligation to maintain sexual purity.

Back to the original point of the thread--I am so cautious about what the kids access on the internet, because pornography is a terrible problem. I would be devastated if one of my children were to become addicted to porn--because it can distort their view of sexuality for the rest of their lives! How sad for a 17 year old girl to be addicted to pornography. I like these comments by MD on the topic of avoiding sexual sin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyTN8...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bel7HxYW5T4

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Please. How many HAVEN'T done this?

I would be very upset if I found out my husband was fantasizing about someone else while with me. Anyone who has done that needs to tell God they're sorry, and focus on their spouse. Why would you think of another person when you have someone right in front of you?

I asked my husband about it, and he answered very honestly. Respectfully, I won't share his complete answer. Basically he said that we can't control what thoughts pop into our heads, but if something inappropriate does come up, you have to take control over that and think about something different. (e.g., your wife instead of a pornographic image)

My husband said: "If I need visual stimulation, I need to just open my eyes...."

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Excellent post. That's why Paul recommended marriage instead of being "inflamed with lust." (per Strong's) If a man can't remain pure while single, he needs to marry rather than "burn."

In marriage, I completely disagree with the idea that a man or woman should gratify themselves if the spouse isn't available or willing. Science shows that while men have a higher sex drive in their younger years, it's common for women to have a higher sex drive when she's in her 30's. So either their sex drives will even out, or the woman's can actually be greater than her husband's, reversing the original problem.

Men and women should "defraud not" their spouses to prevent sexual sin. That means if my husband wants sex more than I do, I do my best to satisfy his needs. If there comes a point where our situations are reversed, he should do his best to satisfy my needs. In a marriage you work together to make sure both people are satisfied. I think it's fairly obvious how that's the most rewarding method.

I love how Dr. Laura Schlessinger responds to women who call in to her show complaining about being too tired or uninterested in sex. She basically responds with total disbelief, and recommends they try sex as a relaxation method. LOL!!!!! It sounds so simple, but really--why all the objections to sex on a regular basis? That should be an enjoyable part of marriage, and it seems like so many women dread it. If a man is married to a woman who doesn't like sex, then I feel bad for him, BUT he still has an obligation to maintain sexual purity.

Back to the original point of the thread--I am so cautious about what the kids access on the internet, because pornography is a terrible problem. I would be devastated if one of my children were to become addicted to porn--because it can distort their view of sexuality for the rest of their lives! How sad for a 17 year old girl to be addicted to pornography. I like these comments by MD on the topic of avoiding sexual sin:

Actually Paul's instructions to "stay as you are," whether they were slaves, singles or married people, was mostly to do with his eschatological idea of a very imminent return of Jesus. Some say he switched gears later in his ministry, but as it is we get passages like these, where he's telling single people to stay that way if they can, and slaves to just stay in the position they are. He wasn't concerned with social change because, like many of the early church, they believed the soon coming was really soon! A great contrast is to read 1 Thess against 2 Thess. Paul corrects his tone in the second letter. Men were quitting jobs and trash was filling the streets after his first letter. He had to temper that in letter #2.

I'm not sure on the "gratifying themselves" idea either. It's not really black and white IMO.. either scripturally or otherwise.

Good wisdom about protecting children in these formative years against exposure, but also giving them the wisdom and tools to confront the realities when they are unleashed to the world. Pornography is no less a statistic in the church than outside the church. In fact, many argue and have statistics showing that it's worse! This goes for "clergy," "laity" or otherwise.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I would be very upset if I found out my husband was fantasizing about someone else while with me. Anyone who has done that needs to tell God they're sorry, and focus on their spouse. Why would you think of another person when you have someone right in front of you?

I asked my husband about it, and he answered very honestly. Respectfully, I won't share his complete answer. Basically he said that we can't control what thoughts pop into our heads, but if something inappropriate does come up, you have to take control over that and think about something different. (e.g., your wife instead of a pornographic image)

My husband said: "If I need visual stimulation, I need to just open my eyes...."

I understand and what you say makes perfect sense.

However, the reality is, how many have done that? Have you ever? To be rational and calculated during sex is unrealistic. It's when we are the least rational and operating fully off chemicals!

So, we may try. But what do you say to the guy who gets continual thoughts in his head during love making about scenarios, people, even including his wife? How do you rationally control that? Stop what you're doing and count to 10? See what I mean?

I think it's great your husband was honest and I think it's more common than many want to admit.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

I understand and what you say makes perfect sense.

However, the reality is, how many have done that? Have you ever? To be rational and calculated during sex is unrealistic. It's when we are the least rational and operating fully off chemicals!

So, we may try. But what do you say to the guy who gets continual thoughts in his head during love making about scenarios, people, even including his wife? How do you rationally control that? Stop what you're doing and count to 10? See what I mean?

I think it's great your husband was honest and I think it's more common than many want to admit.

I think there's a difference between what images randomly pop into your head and what ideas you allow yourself to focus on. It's not wrong to see a beautiful woman, notice that she's beautiful, and even have an instantaneous [involuntary] sexual response. However, if you allow yourself to continue that feeling unchecked by the boundaries of morality put in place by the laws of God, then you are going down the path of lust, fornication and/or adultery.

II Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

A French Maid is not a specific person. It's a role.
Some folks need to go through the Sex On Sundays series.

The "role" is simply an "image of another".

I'm sure that we all have our personal preferences, of which I won't argue. But I have found that the "touch", with the right person, will always supersede, override and perfectly satisfy, placing the "role" as quite unnecessary. If others have not experienced that, than I can only be sorry for it.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

Your position places biology above biblical commandment. God fully recognizes that younger people have stronger biological urges than older. But his commandments are for all, not simply the old. When Paul said that God provides a way of escape for those tempted, that is not simply a promise for the old, but for all. While I agree that "these human needs" are universal, the behavior is not condoned by God.

That’s your interpretation Dave.

Yes, I'm familiar with Dr. Dobson's position on this, and I think he's mistaken. Basically, he has stated that he sees nothing wrong with pre-married adolescent males engaging in "self gratification", but that it would be wrong for them to continue this behavior after marriage. Here's why I disagree with his first assertion:

1)- Dr. Dobson acknowledges that human males are aroused via visual stimulation (looking at women, etc.)

2)- Unmarried males have no partner which they can fantasize about during self-gratification, therefore, they are prone to fantasize about women to whom they are not married.

3)- Since Jesus said that if a man (including young males) looks on (which includes fantasizing) a woman to lust after her, he has already committed adultery. This would extend to unmarried men fantasizing over unmarried women, which would be fornication- and still sin.[/QUOTE]

This is where many would disagree somewhat with you. We see two people in the Song of Solomon fantasizing about one another prior to marriage. I challenge you to find a person who didn’t fantasize about the girl (or boy) they fell in love with prior to marriage. It’s normal. It’s healthy. It’s human. I’d say that if you didn’t have a fantasy about the person you’d like to marry or at least find them “attractive” in that way, there’s something wrong. When comes to this sort of thing, there’s nothing wrong normal human thoughts and feelings. Let’s look at what Jesus actually said…

Matthew 5:28
{5:28} But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Jesus isn’t talking about your normal fantasy or interest in the opposite gender. Jesus is talking about a person who purposefully looks upon a woman for the express purpose of lusting after her. A purpose full of true desire to exploit an individual for personal pleasure. We see this in the world when a man looks upon a woman he’s going to try to pick up in a bar. He’s not a 15 year old kid in math class fantasizing about Betty Mae, the cutest girl in the school. This man is a predator. Jesus’ point is that adultery has already taking place in a man’s heart the moment he looks upon a woman with the express purpose of using her.

You’d have Christ’s words condemn the majority of adolescent kids who have healthy feelings and interests.

4)- Once a behavior such as self gratification is established in a young male, it does have a high probability of being continued into adulthood and into the marriage relationship.

Yes, this is common even among happily married individuals.

5)- Married adult males who previously fantasized about women during self-gratification before marriage have a high probability of continuing this behavior once married. This is adultery.

It can be argued that a “fantasy”, while unwise and can lead to sin is just a fantasy. If the man has no desire to truly commit an act of sin it can hardly be said that he has sinned. In addition, Jesus didn’t say that lusting is adultery… he said it was adultery of the heart. The seed from which adultery springs. Else we’d have to argue that any man who ever had a fantasy about a woman to whom he wasn’t married by sentenced to death. We’d also say that a wife would be warranted to issue a divorce decree if her husband gazed on the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit edition too long in the grocery store.

So, what is the answer for young males (or females) who have "overwhelming" urges they can't contain? As you so adeptly suggested: PRAY PRAY PRAY FAST FAST FAST. This is not just for young people, but individuals of all ages. Since when are we, as a temple of the Holy Ghost, permitted to be ruled by our carnal nature? You keep suggesting that since these type of urges are "natural", that somehow it's okay to fulfill them. That's simply not Bible. Paul said he died daily! He said he brought under his body, and kept it under subjection. We are not to be ruled by our passions and lusts. That's called carnality! I don't care what age someone might be. If they've received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, then God gives them power over the flesh. If they do not practice this, then they are living in carnality.

What do you suggest when all the prayer and fasting hasn’t helped them? They are human Dave. Adolescent human beings. My concern is that you’d heap condemnation on them for something that is perfectly normal. If my son found himself on the verge of being convinced by you that God hated him as an adulterer just because he had a fantasy about Betty Mae… you and I would have words my friend. And I’d gladly tell you about the grace of God and how you’re destroying kids. I’ve talked to kids struggling in this area and upon realizing that God still loves them and that the issue isn’t a major problem… it subsides. They grow out of it. It happens less frequently. You make it a forbidden fruit that they begin craving and then hide. I’m glad I’m open enough that when my son starts having issues here we can talk and I can navigate him responsibly and introduce him to the grace of God.

I was filled with the baptism of the Holy Ghost at the age of 16. I did not engage in carnal behavior because I PRAYED AND FASTED. When my wife and I got married, both our virginity was in tact. That sort of thing is possible because the Holy Ghost makes it possible. "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh."

Hmmm….so you’re one of those 1% who never engaged in what you call “carnal behavior” of any kind. I commend you. But I think you have deeper issues that you’re not telling us about. I’ve seen this sort of thing over and over and over. You’re no different. I’ll pray for you.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

The "role" is simply an "image of another".

I'm sure that we all have our personal preferences, of which I won't argue. But I have found that the "touch", with the right person, will always supersede, override and perfectly satisfy, placing the "role" as quite unnecessary. If others have not experienced that, than I can only be sorry for it.

PO, so you believe your personal experience is superior than other's who choose to be more adventurous?

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

The "role" is simply an "image of another".

uhhhh...no. It's simply seeing your spouse in a different way. That can be fun.

I'm sure that we all have our personal preferences, of which I won't argue. But I have found that the "touch", with the right person, will always supersede, override and perfectly satisfy, placing the "role" as quite unnecessary. If others have not experienced that, than I can only be sorry for it.

There's nothing wrong with playing games. The games don't really work if you don't already have chemistry.