After I was pretrib, I went into post trib teachings and beliefs. But I found errors in it as well. It was after post trib teaching that I studied the bible for myself and came to realize what is popularly known as partial preterism, which I prefer to call Kingdom Eschatology since it emphasizes the invisible Kingdom in which we now exist as believers. In fact, as noted here, the kingdom never will be seen.
Thanks for your input.
So your post pretrib period was posttrib, and now you're in your post posttrib period, partial preterism? What'll be next, for your post partial preterism period?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Revelation was introduced as being a SYMBOLIC account of things that were AT HAND to John's time of writing. That means they were VERY CLOSE. Not thousands of years later. I only see the tail end of the Revelation showing an account of the far off future from John's day, seeing it was of necessity that John be told the overall picture that give the implications of the near events that comprise Revelation 1 through 19.
In short, AT HAND means the greater bulk of events were VERY close to John's time of writing. And John did not write this in AD96, as Irenaeus incorrectly presumed, while the same man was terribly mistaken in time studies since he thought Jesus died at age fifty! Everyone who says Revelation was written in AD96 may not realize it, and may, but they all get that from ONE MAN - IRENAEUS.
Since the events were AT HAND, we know the TWO WITNESSES were involved in the picture of the AD70 destruction of Jerusalem.
Notice the facts stated around the mention of the two witnesses.
Revelation 11:1-2 KJV And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. (2) But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
42 months is 3.5 years. Exactly the amount of time taken for Rome to besiege and destroy Jerusalem. Jesus referred to this as well in Luke 21:24.
Luke 21:24 KJV And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Pretribbers who spoke personally to me agree Luke 21:24 is speaking about AD70. However, they disconnect that from Revelation 11:2, which I believe is meant to be connected. I see a contradiction in their thoughts due to this.
And John was told the OUTER COURT was given to the Gentiles, which is why the city would be trodden under foot of the Gentiles. So the TEMPLE is symbolic here. The TEMPLE was measured and represents something God would not allow to be destroyed. But the outer court was not measured. When something is measured in the bible, it is indicated to be MARKED by an OWNER. In this case, it is indicated as something that cannot be touched by the destruction by the Gentiles when they destroy the city.
I believe it is the TRUE TEMPLE called the church! The CHURCH escaped the destruction of Jerusalem.
Revelation 11:3-4 KJV And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. (4) These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
The two witnesses minister for the same amount of time -- 1,260 days is 3.5 years or 42 months, when we realize a Hebrew month was exactly 30 days.
They are identified as THE two olive trees. A SPECIFIC pair of olive trees. So, if there is a specific pair of olive trees, the Bible must provide us with which particular pair this is referring to.
Refer to the rest of the Bible. Not mythical prophecy books printed in pulp paper.
Zechariah 4:3 KJV And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
Zechariah saw the seven golden candlesticks with two olive trees aside it.
The prophet asked the angel what those two olive trees were.
Zechariah 4:4-10 KJV So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord? (5) Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. (6) Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts. (7) Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it. (8) Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, (9) The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you. (10) For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.
Get the picture. Zechariah saw two olive trees pouring oil through golden pipes into the seven candlesticks. And the message is that Zerubbabel would not be doing his job in his own power and might, but in the Spirit of God. The oil is the Spirit, and Zerubbabel has something to do with the olive trees. And it is ANOINTING instead of human strength and power. So, the ANOINTED ONES are inferred.
It seems Zechariah needs more clarification. Continue...
Zechariah 4:11-14 KJV Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? (12) And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? (13) And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. (14) Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.
Compare with:
Rev 11:4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
The words are identical! Revelation 11 is obviously referring back to this vision in Zechariah 4. People who do not research the rest of the bible to interpret Revelation will not see this obvious correlation.
So who are these two witnesses, or anointed ones, who stand by the Lord of the whole earth? Zerubbabel was already noted in Zech 4. But someone was with Zerubbabel and doing a great work. And we find in the previous chapter, JOSHUA the HIGH PRIEST (Not the same Joshua who led Israel into Canaan). In the return of Israel out of Babylonian captivity, Joshua the high priest and Zerubbabel the governor worked together to restore the TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM.
Think of this in light of Rev. 11's reference to the destruction of JERUSALEM. The SAME THING happened when Babylon destroyed Jerusalem. In fact, history tells us that the same day and month of the year when Rome destroyed the temple in AD70 was when Babylon destroyed the temple 6 centuries before Christ!
Now, obviously Zerubbabel and Joshua are NOT the two witnesses of Rev 11:3. These two men lived and died 6 centuries before Revelation was written. But why does Rev 11:3 identify the two witnesses as THE two olive trees who stand by the Lord of the whole earth, just as Joshua and Zerubbabel were said to be? The key is to think of a TYPE these two men in Zechariah's day might foreshadow. The temple was destroyed and they are involved in RESTORING IT. They are TWO WITNESSES.
Revelation 1:1 says the Revelation was SIGNIFIED. In other words, GIVEN BY SIGNS.
The two witnesses in Rev 11:3 are SIGNS of two things associated with the AD70 destruction of Jerusalem.
Now, tie the CANDLESTICK with what Revelation says.
Zechariah 4:2-3 KJV And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof: (3) And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
Revelation 1:12 KJV And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
Revelation 1:20 KJV The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Revelation 11:4 KJV These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
So Revelation has both the seven candlesticks and the two olive trees that we find in Zechariah 4!
And the candlesticks are the CHURCHES. Consider this is given to Zechariah when the TEMPLE WAS BEING REBUILT. And in Revelation, the city Jerusalem was to be destroyed., as it's temple would obviously be destroyed. But the TEMPLE measured in revelation is not the temple that was destroyed! It represents something else. What was destroyed was Jerusalem, and the PHYSICAL temple of stones was also destroyed at the same time. So, there is a deep message here in Revelation 11. One temple is BEING BUILT while another one is DESTROYED!
And someone said it is wrong to interpret Revelation with the Old Testament???
To be continued...
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
So your post pretrib period was posttrib, and now you're in your post posttrib period, partial preterism? What'll be next, for your post partial preterism period?
Actually post trib is REALLY seen in ways that common post trib people do not realize, since the post trib idea says the rapture takes place after the tribulation. Well, if the tribulation was in AD70, and the rapture is still future, already 2000 years later, then it is REALLY POST TRIB!!!
But I have been partial preterist for a longer period of time than I was pretrib and post trib put together. And I have not found errors in it yet.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Reve 11:1-4 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty [and] two months. And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
two witnesses in chapter 11 also referred to as two olive trees. ="These are the olive trees, and two candlesticks standing before the God of the whole earth,
Zech 4:2-3 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all [of] gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which [are] upon the top thereof: And two olive trees by it, one upon the right [side] of the bowl, and the other upon the left [side] thereof.
IF WE SEARCH SCRIPTURE & ALLOW SCRIPTURE TO EXPLAIN ITSELF WE WILL STAY ON TRACK~
Zech 4:11-14 Then answered I, and said unto him, What [are] these two olive trees upon the right [side] of the candlestick and upon the left [side] thereof? And I answered again, and said unto him, What [be these] two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden [oil] out of themselves? And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these [be]? And I said, No, my lord. Then said he, These [are] the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.
Here is a map to the answer, study this out with a open heart in search of the truth of the matter....
Let us allow scripture to interpret itself. 2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Lord Bless~
__________________ seek knowledge to gain desire
documentation beats conversation.
Revelation 4:4 KJV And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
The 24 elders SIT ON THRONES with CROWNS. (GOVERNMENT.) They have WHITE RAIMENT - the linen ephod of the PRIESTS (Spiritual). In fact they have HARPS and INCENSE as priests did in the Old Testament, particularly the Tabernacle of David (Spiritual).
So we see the notion of Government and Priesthood involved in Revelation, and this fits with Zerubbabel and Joshua of Zechariah.
Even Moses and Elijah were like TWO WITNESSES in Matthew 17 when Jesus was transfigured. Moses speaks of LAW (GOVERNMENT) and Elijah speaks of Prophets (SPIRITUAL).
Revelation 1:6 says we are KINGS and PRIESTS! Another connection!
When I read this I think of ...
John 4:23 KJV But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:24 KJV God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 KJV (13) But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
SPIRIT AND TRUTH are SYMBOLIZED by the TWO WITNESSES. This fits with Joshua and Zerubbabel, and the thought of Elijah and Moses, and Christ's emphasis upon true worshipers.
Revelation 11:5-12 KJV And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. (6) These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. (7) And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. (8) And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. (9) And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. (10) And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. (11) And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. (12) And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
There is a period of time for 3.5 years when the WITNESSES OF SPIRIT AND TRUTH are proclaiming the Word of God in Jerusalem that is to be destroyed. And when the two witnesses are done, they are slain and lay dead for 3.5 days (notion of the same 3.5 years). I believe this refers to the destruction of Jerusalem, since the church was told to flee when they see Jerusalem surrounded by Roman armies. History recounts the church fled to Pella and not a Christian perished in the 3.5 year siege of Jerusalem! Thank God they did not believe that prophecy of Jesus was not to be fulfilled for another 2,000 years as futurists teach today.
So while Jerusalem was besieged for 3.5 years the witness in Jerusalem of Spirit and Truth was killed. The church was in hiding. But after the city was destroyed, the resurrection of SPIRIT and TRUTH OCCURRED again, and the Gospel went wild throughout the world!
I wil give more detail as we progress.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Reve 11:1-4 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty [and] two months. And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
two witnesses in chapter 11 also referred to as two olive trees. ="These are the olive trees, and two candlesticks standing before the God of the whole earth,
Zech 4:2-3 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all [of] gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which [are] upon the top thereof: And two olive trees by it, one upon the right [side] of the bowl, and the other upon the left [side] thereof.
IF WE SEARCH SCRIPTURE & ALLOW SCRIPTURE TO EXPLAIN ITSELF WE WILL STAY ON TRACK~
Zech 4:11-14 Then answered I, and said unto him, What [are] these two olive trees upon the right [side] of the candlestick and upon the left [side] thereof? And I answered again, and said unto him, What [be these] two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden [oil] out of themselves? And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these [be]? And I said, No, my lord. Then said he, These [are] the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.
Here is a map to the answer, study this out with a open heart in search of the truth of the matter....
Let us allow scripture to interpret itself. 2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Lord Bless~
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After I posted this I didnt realize Bro Blume was already in this vein...
Thanks for the conformation on this Bro Blume....
__________________ seek knowledge to gain desire
documentation beats conversation.
__________________________________________________ _______________
After I posted this I didnt realize Bro Blume was already in this vein...
Thanks for the conformation on this Bro Blume....
God is good and trying to show us something here!
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Fire coming out of the mouth of the two witnesses is the PREACHING OF THE WORD. Jeremiah said the word was like FIRE in his mouth.
Jeremiah 5:14 KJV Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.
It's not two actual men who breathe fire like dragons.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Maybe preacher76 has more detailed info on the 2 witnesses. This is what I see so far.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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