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  #191  
Old 08-07-2008, 03:03 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Swinging Church!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified View Post
It must not be very "open" or he would have been called up to see the board by now!!!!

I think, based on my own experience, that there can be quite a bit that goes on under some pastors' noses, and they either really don't have a clue, or they don't want to know or deal with it for various reasons.
I agree, however in this case it's a swapping PARTY and they are openly discussing bedroom talk AND inviting other members. If the pastor does not have a clue then wow.....WOW. I can only speculate as to the condition of that church or that pastor. Something is not right.

BTW I have been privy to such stories myself. I have a friend that went to a local AOG years ago. The whole thing was scandalous. Girls were getting pregnant left and right. Some teen girls were allowed to date sinners, get pregnant and still be the sunday school teacher. The Pastors son knocked up the daughter of some other couple and nothing happened to him. I don't know how much of any of this is true though, but I know this sort of thing can and does happen but I also know that stories sometimes are not true or the facts have been distorted.
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Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


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  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
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  #192  
Old 08-07-2008, 03:04 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Swinging Church!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esther View Post
Although this pastor is fairly young, I seriously doubt he would condone this in any way. I don't know any names or the people involved, didn't ask, don't need to know. But I wonder if he is aware of it OR has addressed it and assumed it had stopped.

I know the church I formerly went to the pastor got up and mentioned he didn't want to hear about any more Texas Hold'en parties. I had no clue that was going on either.
lol...so the parties keep going on just nobody tells the pastor.
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #193  
Old 08-07-2008, 03:07 PM
Pastor DTSalaz Pastor DTSalaz is offline
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Re: Swinging Church!

This kind of thing should not surprise us as the nature of man (flesh) is bent towards evil. It is only by the leading of the spirit that we can overcome the lust of the flesh. Our spirit needs to be made alive as it was dead and unable to be lead by Gods Spirit until the new birth. This sinful activity happened since the beginning and was the reason God destroyed the world by the flood.

Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

WE still live in the flesh but the flesh needs to be crucified. We don't become spirits that no longer have to contend with the flesh. This is the battle that Pastors have to battle with. Sinners that have become saints but have developed years of sinful habits. When you are converted this does not eliminate the memory of all that happened in the past. This is why we have to renew our minds by the word of God.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies (flesh) a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Are there those in the church who are not following the leading off the Spirit? If they are not listening to the Word of God their minds are still functioning according to the course of this world. It is only through the renewing of our minds that we will be transformed. Paul puts mankind in three different categories; 1. Natural/Unregenerate (Dead) 2. Spiritual (Christians) 3. Carnal (Christians) It is to whom we are lead by will we determine our final destiny.

1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Should we be surprised that there are carnal Christians who are lead by their flesh though attending a church, whether pastor or parishioner? If we stop praying and seeking God we all are subject to the will of flesh taking over. It is not whether these things happen more than a matter of how we handle these things when they do happen.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


That is why we have a spirit of fornication sweep through a youth group. Now we have a epidemic of homosexuality hitting our churches. The media and promulgation of metro-sexual, gay and lesbian lifestyles as normative have made it seem ok to try out or play with this. They are in the flesh. You can try to pretend this does not go on but Pastors are facing these trends in their offices more and more. When these things are started while they are young people they think they can stop them when they get married. It usually plays out after they've been married for a few years with a couple of children that their sinful lifestyle of infidelity comes back to destroy their marriage. The results are divorce becoming more common even in Apostolic Pentecostal churches.

When somebody tries these things (promiscuous lifestyle) before getting converted and they do not seek the spirits guidance through a genuine relationship with God, but rather begin a social relationship within a church and never that deeper relationship with God, that spirit can come back to deceive them and others as well.

No organization is exempt. Just take a look at what the Roman Catholic Church has done. They knew things were going on and covered them up. This has happened to the televangelists. I even know of cases where higher ups have done favors for friends by not exposing them for wrongdoing. They then have strings attached and blind the eyes of both believing that they can get away with sin. I have been extremely pleased to know Pastors that have been righteous and have removed their own proteges for sinful behavior. This shows the true integrity of an individual.
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  #194  
Old 08-07-2008, 03:10 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Swinging Church!

Quote:
Originally Posted by U376977 View Post
True, if it were a "charge." I merely offered this in support of Esthers concern. This type of thing does happen--and the church, whether UPC or others survives. It is tragic--but is not a death blow. That was my point. I did not offer the story as a "charge" to have the bishop removed ect. This forum is not a ministry trial.
Wanting to verify some stories by getting more info is not necessarily being nosy

Quote:
Just because I offered a corallory story to Esthers should not open the door for the both of us to be called liars--because we cannot pubilcly name names and dates to a poster who I think is just being nosey and does not have truth as their cause.
That's another issue. Im only saying hearing such serious events or accusations and wanting more info rather than just accepting they are true is not being nosy

Quote:
I did not contend that it should not be reported to the Bishops superiors. Just not to this forum or any member thereof. And that it was not my responsibility to report--I was 2nd hand info.--it is my pastors decision to report it to the Bishops superiors.
I did not say you did contend it should not be reported. Im just thinking all these things need to be reported,. In the case of Esthers story it was not reported supposedly
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #195  
Old 08-07-2008, 03:13 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Swinging Church!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified View Post
To be fair, Prax (and CC1), it doesn't exactly fall under the umbrella of "rumor" if it is discussed generically, without names, places or specific details that point to anyone, any church or any pastor in particular.

At the same time, when someone tries to be careful enough not to talk about another person, but merely a "situation", specifics are then demanded. LOL!!! It's quite a quandary.
It's being assumed though to be true of one particularly church Esther is familiar with. What if someone knows what church Esther is talking about? We've had mention it is about 300 members. The pastor is young. Esther knows the pastor.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Reply With Quote
  #196  
Old 08-07-2008, 03:15 PM
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tstew tstew is offline
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Re: Swinging Church!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified View Post
To be fair, Prax (and CC1), it doesn't exactly fall under the umbrella of "rumor" if it is discussed generically, without names, places or specific details that point to anyone, any church or any pastor in particular.

At the same time, when someone tries to be careful enough not to talk about another person, but merely a "situation", specifics are then demanded. LOL!!! It's quite a quandary.
Miss B, I do agree with the premise that having a generic discussion does keep from going far into the realm of rumor. However, possibly we should extend the anonimity beyond specific people, churches, or pastors and extend it to specific organizations as well. The concept of protecting anonimity falls apart when specific organizations are mentioned. At that point it is actually counter-productive because then instead of protecting one by not mentioning him specifically, you indict all because you did not get specific.
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  #197  
Old 08-07-2008, 03:17 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Swinging Church!

I just want to add, as I said I never denied such things happen. Im cautious about every story we hear because I know how they can be false. Having said that these things happen in every church, even the Ultra Con. I have heard folks rail on the so called "liberal" churches, even the ones that were not really liberal and talk about how their youth were all out fornicating etc etc...well it can and does happen in the UC churches too.

I was naive. When I first came to the Lord I thought our youth were perfect...until a friend of mine told me what he did at a youth conv with another youth. The church was very conservative.

The truth is by and large some of 'us' look the look and talk the talk often but in secret are living in sin.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Reply With Quote
  #198  
Old 08-07-2008, 03:42 PM
Pastor DTSalaz Pastor DTSalaz is offline
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Re: Swinging Church!

I do remember a popular radio teacher who was involved in some type of relationship outside his marriage. No specific details were given, however I did like his teaching and supported it financially. They sent me a letter stating he was being removed from his position as dean of a bible college and the radio broadcast. He did his time under the trial period and both the organization and he himself gained credibility. He is now back on radio and continues to teach.

Pro 6:32 But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.
Pro 6:33 A wound and dishonour shall he get; and his reproach shall not be wiped away.

Though we can be forgiven the Word tells us that our reproach shall not be wiped away!!!!
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  #199  
Old 08-07-2008, 04:08 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Swinging Church!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor DTSalaz View Post
I do remember a popular radio teacher who was involved in some type of relationship outside his marriage. No specific details were given, however I did like his teaching and supported it financially. They sent me a letter stating he was being removed from his position as dean of a bible college and the radio broadcast. He did his time under the trial period and both the organization and he himself gained credibility. He is now back on radio and continues to teach.

Pro 6:32 But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.
Pro 6:33 A wound and dishonour shall he get; and his reproach shall not be wiped away.

Though we can be forgiven the Word tells us that our reproach shall not be wiped away!!!!
And then there was Jimmy.....
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #200  
Old 08-07-2008, 04:15 PM
Pastor DTSalaz Pastor DTSalaz is offline
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Re: Swinging Church!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
And then there was Jimmy.....
Thats not who this was

He didn't submit to church authority
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