Why the antagonism towards Holiness?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by holinesspk

Your fortunate your a mod. I cant put you on my ignore list........Dude, just cool it. Cant you be at least a little friendly?

Passive aggressive. Can YOU be at least a little friendly? It's ok to tell others they live like the devil and they have chips on their shoulders and you are friendly but others are not?

Put me on ignore, that is fine. All I did was address your first post and disagree with it. You say that was me tearing YOU down rather than tearing your argument down.

I have not been unfriendly to you and have nothing personal against you. I wanted to address your first post and I did and you ignored it and made a personal comment lol and now you are finger pointing that it's all me.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by holinesspk

Well Praxeas, no offense bro, but I have reached the conclusion not to respond to your posts. With as much love as I can say it, you are not on this thread to discuss, but to tear down and tear apart. You havent had a single polite thing to say to me in the 18 or so pages of this thread. I really dont feel like a knock down drag out fight, which is gonna happen if I start giving your posts the time of day. You might want to check your attitude brother. I dont agree with Rico either, but we are on civil terms and I respond to him. Try a little gentleness and politeness in your posts bro. I am not here to tear you down so why tear me down? Well whatever, if it makes you feel better, it dont bother me........lol......

Brother H, Praxeas has an "in your face" posting style. It can take some getting used to, but what he's really after is to discuss the issues, like the rest of us. I think it's great that you are hangin in with us. I've seen newbies get run off for much less. This is one of your first threads and it has already generated almost 200 posts. Dat's pretty good fer a new feller!

[Rico]

Originally Posted by holinesspk

Your fortunate your a mod. I cant put you on my ignore list........Dude, just cool it. Cant you be at least a little friendly?

I know what you mean. I tried to put a certain admin on ignore and was disappointed that the system wouldn't let me. What I did with him was to scroll right past any post he made. It was almost like having him on ignore, but not quite.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by holinesspk

I am trying to think of how to properly answer this in a christian manner. Nothing is coming, so I best leave this alone........

Keep working at it. I am sure something will come.

[holinesspk]

Originally Posted by CC1

Keep working at it. I am sure something will come.

I am...... jk....

[holinesspk]

Originally Posted by Rico

Brother H, Praxeas has an "in your face" posting style. It can take some getting used to, but what he's really after is to discuss the issues, like the rest of us.

Well, in that case, Praxeas, I owe you an apology............I dont mean to misjudge you....

I think it's great that you are hangin in with us. I've seen newbies get run off for much less. This is one of your first threads and it has already generated almost 200 posts. Dat's pretty good fer a new feller!

Oh, I wont scare off that easy......lol...I must admit I am rather surprised this thread drew off that many posts. yeah! lol.....

[holinesspk]

Originally Posted by Rico

I know what you mean. I tried to put a certain admin on ignore and was disappointed that the system wouldn't let me. What I did with him was to scroll right past any post he made. It was almost like having him on ignore, but not quite.

Well if what you say is true about Praxeas, then he doesnt deserve my ignore list. Perhaps I was harsh, or perhaps he was rude, or vice versa, whatever the case, I think it went overboard.......lol!

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I thought standards were supposed to be based on what the bible says. How is it in many "standard" churches, especially the ones that are doing more to be saved, they all have the same convictions as the pastor who preached the standards to them but in the church down the street they have different standards and have convictions over them that are exactly in line with what the Pastor preaches too?

Muslims all have convictions that their Imans preach to them. JWs and RCCs and Mormons. In other words most of our "convictions" are not really personal convictions but simply us getting in line with what was preached.

True "standards" are what the word of God teaches especially the fruit of the Spirit

Prax.........Don't compare yourself amongest yourself......I don't worry about what the other churches are doing around me. And my convictions are MY convictions....I can freely go to any church I want. I know what other preachers preach. I have been around a long time. I choose to stay where I am, under the preacher that preaches what he does.

[Tina]

Originally Posted by Rico

I know what you mean. I tried to put a certain admin on ignore and was disappointed that the system wouldn't let me. What I did with him was to scroll right past any post he made. It was almost like having him on ignore, but not quite.

That works both ways. There are some posters that we'd love to be able to put on ignore too-- but since we're moderators/admin we can't ignore anyone. We do as you do-- we scroll over posts and only get forced to read if they get reported for something.

Prax does take some getting used to. I remember when I first came to the forums-- I didn't think too much of Prax at first... but as I got to know more about him through his posts-- he's not a bad fellow after all. He's actually on my "favorite posters" list.

[tv1a]

There is a huge difference between holiness and witchcraft. Your post does not define holiness. It defines a religious superiority that no one will make it to heaven if they don't believe just as I do.

Legalism is a form of witchcraft. As Paul points out in Galatians, salvation isn't a rules based religion.

Legalism should be trashed. Anyone who espouses legalism should put on a Harry Potter hat and wave their magic wand. It's no different in God's eyes.

Your post suggests you have difficulty understanding personal convictions vs Biblical absolutes. I may have a personal conviction about eating the butt off a pig, but I am not to supposed to look down on you if you eat high on the hog.

Another problem your posts shows is you believe in the rule more than the principle behind the rule. I read a headline last week that internet addiction is rapidly on the increase. Internet pornography does billions of dollars in revenue. Yet your concern is about what God thinks about television.

What you have exposed is the propensity to justify selfish desires at the expense of Biblical principles.

Let me give you an idea about principle. He asked me if caffeine was a drug. I told him it was classified as a drug. He told me was going to stop drinking caffienated sodas because he didn't want to take drugs. He has a principle of not putting drugs in his body, including caffeine. If he were to take the self righteouss approach, he would still be downing the sodas because of "loophole."

Legalists can learn a lot from an autistic kid who lives by principle.

The self precieved antagonism may be as a result of people insisting their personal convictions be the standard for salvation.

Originally Posted by holinesspk

I dont mean to seem like I have an agenda on here, I really dont, nor do I wish to seem like I am beating a dead horse, but I got to thinking while reading responses to another thread I posted about the holiness people article.

I guess I really dont understand the antagonism towards holiness standards. I have heard everything from it being just rules, to it being dictatorship, etc. A lot of people hate standards. They preach against it, they disfellowship over it, they mock it, etc. Why? Standards are simply there to keep us out of hell. Some will say its forced on them. Well maybe it is. But here is something to think about. I would rather do to much, than not enough. For instance, our family does not believe in going to restaurants that serve alcohol. Its a conviction we have. My point here is that I would rather Jesus tell me that wasnt necessary, than to tell me it was and I failed. There isnt anything worth missing Heaven over. Not one thing. I dont think many people get that concept.

And this isnt directed at anyone in particular, but if not giving up your tv is worth missing Heaven over, be my guest. If hollywood, jewelry, immodesty, and holiness in general are worth missing heaven over, be my guest. My goal is Heaven, and if that means I give up things here on earth, and the pleasures of this world (which incidentally only last a season), then so be it. There is NOTHING worth missing Heaven over. God may tell us, that we went above and beyond what He expected, but I would rather hear that, than hear that we didnt do enough.

I would so much rather having to say "Man, I could have had a television, look at what shows I missed!" while sitting around the throne of God.....than to be burning in Hell and screaming "Why did I ever have a television? Its not worth this!!"

I dont scare easy, but there is one thing that scares me so bad, I could cry. That is the possibilty of hearing Jesus say, "I do not know you, depart from me ye worker of iniquity." That scares me a lot. I dont say that for dramatic effect, I mean it. It just, well..........terrifies me. I would rather be well over the line on the side I need to be on, than so close to the line, that its an iffy.

I guess thats what I dont get. Holiness is there for our protection. Its a hedge God has provided for us. Standards are there to prevent infiltration from the pits of Hell. And yet, people, and even on here, they mock it, they make fun of it, call it old fashioned, they preach like a saint and live like the devil. It scares me honestly brothers and sisters. The Bible says without holiness, no man shall see God. Holiness is more than just an inward experience. Its like the Holy Ghost, if you get it on the inside, it will show on the outside. Its like the words of that old song.

"Jesus on the inside,
Working on the outside,
OH, what a change in my life!"

We need to check ourselves if we are mocking standards. I am sure the devil really enjoys that. Do some standards go overboard? Yes they do, BUT if obeying it means you are that much closer to heaven, is it really so bad? I want to be as strict as I can get, because God honors those who try to consecrate their lives for Him. Is a little discomfort really comparable to the glory ahead? I know I am probably rambling, but this just really bothers me. I dont get mad, when I hear some loopy person mock holiness...........it scares me for them. They think they are gonna strut in the pearly gates looking like the rest of the world. Lord have mercy.

(Matthew 5:20 KJV) For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I dont know about you, but that frightens me. They were so strict, they could not work, cook, walk to far, carry any load, had to dress a certain way, many activities were banned, they all knew their torah from cover to cover, they were the religious leadership of the day. They were a very holy group of people. We always label them as the bad guys, big mean faced, bushy bearded monsters crying out "crucify Him!!". In reality, they were the ministers of God. They worked in the Temple, studied His word, trained and taught God's people in His ways, etc. They were good, misguided, but good people. Very holy people, and God said that except OUR righteousness EXCEED theirs, we shall in no case enter into the kingdom of Heaven. Does that not move anyone? I pray for our generation. We mock the very thing that protects us. God help us!