"Is it nothing to you... [TRFrance] ?" Lamentations 1:12. The system is rotten and needs to be replaced with something that is alive.
The system is flawed, for sure. But I don't know if I'd say it's rotten.
As imperfect as the UPC is, I believe that in eternity we'll look back and see that the UPCI was one of the most greatly used instruments of God...ever; mightily used by Him to reap millions of souls into His kingdom.
But as I've gone on record as saying several times around here, as productive as I think we've been, we've still let a lot of souls slip through the cracks... Too many souls have ended up turned away from, or pushed out of, Oneness Pentecost. And to my mind, a lot of that has been because of some of the burdensome and unnecessary man-made rules and traditions prevalent in Pentecost that are simply not scripturally justifiable. It's one of those things that's bothered me for years, and probably always will.
And to your point that "the system needs to be replaced", I would simply say the system needs to be improved. And I believe it's happening, gradually, but in the end, there will never be a perfect denomination anywhere, even till Jesus comes. And simply, some changes will take a generation or more; it can't all be done in a few years.
As far as how to effect change.... with anything, we know theres always a right way and a wrong way to do things:
For example, for Bro Joe to say "Well, I'm gonna wear my shorts to the church picnic anyway... just to prove a point"... or Sis. Sue to say "Well, I'm gonna wear my shiny gold rings up on the platform this morning anyway, just to prove a point" , to me is just not a good way to go about things.
I think the kind of slash-and-burn, confrontational approach some seem to be suggesting is counterproductive, unwise, and often just reeks of rebelliousness, which we all know is something God hates.
Brrrrrr!!!! Does anybody else feel the sudden Canadian chill in here? Why it must be 50 degrees below zero.
I must say that despite all of the efforts made to convicne me that UPC and the like folks are not caught up in tradition or backward it always seem to come out in the wash that many still are.
Ron is the perfect case in point. Here is a man who is a longtime poster. Usually a picture of moderation and reasonableness but today his true concerns over what he thinks are the ills of the 21st century Pentecostal church have come out - fog and lights in any services even if just special Youth meetings, etc!
CC, I love you, but I honestly think that this post highlights some of the problems between the "camps".
You say that Ron is a longtime poster who in that lengthy track record has established himself as a picture of moderation and reasonableness, how can you possibly override that long-built image with one opinion in one post about one thing?
Then to somehow take that one post as evidence that the UPC (which includes me) is backwards is troublesome to me. Why can't the lengthy personal relationship that you all shared that was full of "moderation and reasonableness" be much clearer evidence of where he is and where many in the organization are?
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
But we need to also be careful in what we are preserving and creating. Most of the stuff that's been preached in my life time was invented right then! It's not "old paths" at all. It's a novelty.
We need modesty and holiness, this is the fruit of a Christian life consecrated to God. We don't need camp counselors inspecting our children's underwear - that's just perverse.
It's helpful to identify the principles that are important. All of the rest of the junk needs to be burned in that valley where Josiah burned the bones of the false prophets.
Some were set in place because elders looked ahead and didn't want some things to be a stubbling block for future generations. I trust the elders that have been in my life....or the elders that were in the life of my pastor....if they see fit to place protections for the sake of my children and grand children...I am going to trust them.
In the interest of peace, I am not stating an opinion.
I would just like to drop it please.
It is a hot sunny afternoon & we went earlier to a house blessing & we are now taking the family outside as it is a holiday.
Blessings to you all.
Not trying to cause you to stir the pot further, I was just reading the posts, and it really seemed that your outrage diminished when you found out who the pastor was. That's all.
And, it's not just you, Ron, I think it affects all of us. Sometimes we're much more vocal with our protests when those protests involve someone we DON'T like, and it's a veiled form of situational ethics.
I've been guilty of it myself.
__________________ "Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
The system is flawed, for sure. But I don't know if I'd say it's rotten.
As imperfect as the UPC is, I believe that in eternity we'll look back and see that the UPCI was one of the most greatly used instruments of God...ever; mightily used by Him to reap millions of souls into His kingdom.
But as I've gone on record as saying several times around here, as productive as I think we've been, we've still let a lot of souls slip through the cracks... Too many souls have ended up turned away from, or pushed out of, Oneness Pentecost. And to my mind, a lot of that has been because of some of the burdensome and unnecessary man-made rules and traditions prevalent in Pentecost that are simply not scripturally justifiable. It's one of those things that's bothered me for years, and probably always will.
And to your point that "the system needs to be replaced", I would simply say the system needs to be improved. And I believe it's happening, gradually, but in the end, there will never be a perfect denomination anywhere, even till Jesus comes. And simply, some changes will take a generation or more; it can't all be done in a few years.
As far as how to effect change.... with anything, we know theres always a right way and a wrong way to do things:
For example, for Bro Joe to say "Well, I'm gonna wear my shorts to the church picnic anyway... just to prove a point"... or Sis. Sue to say "Well, I'm gonna wear my shiny gold rings up on the platform this morning anyway, just to prove a point" , to me is just not a good way to go about things.
I think the kind of slash-and-burn, confrontational approach some seem to be suggesting is counterproductive, unwise, and often just reeks of rebelliousness, which we all know is something God hates.
Excellent post, TR. The voice of reason.
__________________ "Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
So if we ditch the standards everyone will love the UPC?
But then it wouldn't really be the UPC...or what the UPC is known for. Is there a reason we can't leave the UPC as is....and if they want something different they can find an organization that better suits there needs?
(Not asking with an ugly spirit at all!
After they're fully satisfied on the standards thing, there will be some who want to compromise on the baptism thing...then others who'll want to downplay the speaking in tongues thing....then others who'll want us to de-emphasize the Oneness thing...
There are some among us who will never be satisfied until the UPC is just like the local Baptist church. Maybe they should save themselves the trouble and just go join the local baptist church.
__________________ http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com
Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
__________________ "Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
.
Linear Mode
