Ferd, I hope this thread can calm back down, but let me say that with a lot of church people this is exactly their point. Republican polititians have been in effect saying "I think abortion is wrong, go have three or four". They check a box that they are against abortion, but have no inclination or plan to do anything about it. It has become a lip-service position that will ensure a big voter block, but there is no pressure or even expectation for them to do anything about it.
That is where the comparision to Black people voting Democrat comes in. Both aggravate me becuase the politicians in either case don't actually have to do anything to guarantee the loyal vote.
well, I completely disagree with you to say the lest... at least where republican politicians are concerned. The fact is, Anti-abortion lobby groups do a very good job of grading all of these guys. In fact, they have recently supported democrats who are opposed to abortion, and have turned on John McCain in particular for not being pro life enough...Dr. Dobson has clearly indicated that he will not vote for either canidate in this election because of the abortion issue.
Look, Im not trying to argue much more than the point that being pro-choice is not an Anti-abortion position...
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The conversation with you ends with this post. I feel like you have lied on me, said I think abortion is ok, and I am offended. Laugh about it all you want, but I am not going to post to you again, Ferd.
I said you are pro-choice and therefore support abortion. I believe it is disingenuious to say the above along with the statement that you think abortion is wrong.
sorry bro, you and Hillary Clinton agree with Barak Obama on the point. I disagree.
Its the same as saying you support the troops and at the same time say we have to get out of Iraq because we are killing innocents.
its a false choice. I am sorry you think I have lied on you. That didnt happen.
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There is no way you can say you are for Pro Choice and against abortions. Pro Choice means the right to have an abortion!
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well, I completely disagree with you to say the lest... at least where republican politicians are concerned. The fact is, Anti-abortion lobby groups do a very good job of grading all of these guys. In fact, they have recently supported democrats who are opposed to abortion, and have turned on John McCain in particular for not being pro life enough...Dr. Dobson has clearly indicated that he will not vote for either canidate in this election because of the abortion issue.
Look, Im not trying to argue much more than the point that being pro-choice is not an Anti-abortion position...
Ferd, I understand that they will grade well based on what they say. My point is that we have enough real history now to know that having a Republican in power will not end abortion. At some point it just becomes a talking point while the abortion rate continues to be astronomical after several Republican terms. I certainly believe that abortion is an unbelievable abomination, and my concern is that it is just becoming a political football or talking point.
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There is no way you can say you are for Pro Choice and against abortions. Pro Choice means the right to have an abortion!
Esther, pro-choice means a woman has the right to make the choice on having an abortion for herself. It does not mean thinking abortions are ok to have, perform, or support. If I found myself in a situation where I was talking with a woman considering an abortion, I would never tell her I thought she should have one. I would do my best to convince her not to have one. Ultimately, the choice should be hers to make: not mine, not yours, not the church's, not the government's.
Esther, pro-choice means a woman has the right to make the choice on having an abortion for herself. It does not mean thinking abortions are ok to have, perform, or support. If I found myself in a situation where I was talking with a woman considering an abortion, I would never tell her I thought she should have one. I would do my best to convince her not to have one. Ultimately, the choice should be hers to make: not mine, not yours, not the church's, not the government's.
Rico, just a question so I can understand. On what basis is it a women's right to choose to abort?
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Ferd, I understand that they will grade well based on what they say. My point is that we have enough real history now to know that having a Republican in power will not end abortion. At some point it just becomes a talking point while the abortion rate continues to be astronomical after several Republican terms. I certainly believe that abortion is an unbelievable abomination, and my concern is that it is just becoming a political football or talking point.
The Republican party couldn't care less about a woman having an abortion or two men getting married. They use the issues to gain votes from Christians. The only thing the Republican party truly cares about is doing whatever they can to see to it that big business stays big and makes as much money as it can.
The Republican party couldn't care less about a woman having an abortion or two men getting married. They use the issues to gain votes from Christians. The only thing the Republican party truly cares about is doing whatever they can to see to it that big business stays big and makes as much money as it can.
well I dont agree with you on the first part, but I SURE AM in agreement with the idea that politicians should be in the business of making sure businesses stay big and make as much money as they can!
because:
I have never gotten a job from a poor person (or business)
I have never seen a big business that didnt employ thousands of people.
I have never seen a retirement plan like a 401k funded by someone standing in the government hand out line.
I have seen oil companies make me $$$$ in my 401k.
I have seen big (and not so big) busisnesses give me a weekly paycheck and health insurance
So I am AGAINST abortion and FOR BUSINESS!
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Rico, just a question so I can understand. On what basis is it a women's right to choose to abort?
Whether or not to bring a child into this world needs to be left up to individuals. In a perfect world, no one would ever have pre-marital sex, all pregnancies would be planned, and be the result of marriage. Unfortunately, that isn't the world we live in, so we are forced to decide how far we as a society are willing to go in protecting the rights of everyone. That includes deciding whether an unborn baby has the right to be born, once conceived. While I believe that unborn children have that right, I do not believe that right trumps the right of the mother to decide whether she will carry that baby to full term. We put ourselves in a very dangerous position when we hand that choice over to the government. I said it in another post: if the government can force a woman to have a child, it opens the door for them to force a woman not to have a child. Roe V Wade ensured the rights of individuals to make that choice and, in the process, makes sure the government can't force its will on its people.
My personal preference would be that women who find themselves with an unplanned pregnancy would carry the baby to term and simply give that baby up for adoption. There are so many couples in this country who are looking for children to adopt, and I think putting them together with women in this situation would be a perfect solution to the problem.
From a moral standpoint, I think people need to think about the consequences of their actions before they get in bed with anyone and find themselves having to make a decision like this. It's bad enough that so many people are engaging in pre-marital sex to begin with. Killing the results of pre-marital sex will only make things worse, because it adds to the sin already committed.
As strongly as I feel that abortion is wrong, I can not, and will not, ever endorse the notion of taking the right of choice away from women. Our government has too much control over us as it is.
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