As far as SEPARATION is concerned, the WPF was willing to maintain their membership in both organizations; it was the UPC that decided to do something about that.
The interesting thing when the kingdom of Israel split was that when Jeroboam rebelled against the God-given authority of Reheboam, Jeroboam put away the Levites out of Israel. He disfellowshipped them. He put away, God's ordained priesthood and came up with his own. But everyone whose heart sought after God, left Israel and went to Judah and Jerusalem. When Jeroboam realized that during the time of worship, Israel might go back to Jerusalem, he created a substitute and told them it was too much for them to go to Jerusalem - it was TOO HARD for them.
Kinda reminds me of speaking evil of the way of truth.
__________________
Jer 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls...
Paul wrote of some who were enemies of the cross of Christ - he didn't say they were enemies of Christ, but enemies of the CROSS of Christ.
Jesus said, if any man will follow me, let him DENY HIMSELF and take up his cross daily and follow him.
Paul said, I die daily.
Paul understood that the flesh and the Spirit war against each other and that to give the Spirit the upper hand, one had to die daily and to get renewed in the Holy Ghost and to walk in the Spirit so that one would NOT fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Paul said, they that are Christ's, they that belong to him, true Christians, have crucified their flesh with the affections and lusts thereof. If you want to know a true christian, one that belongs to him, it is those who have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts thereof and walk in the Spirit.
You shall know them by their fruit, either they will manifest the fruit of the Spirit or the works of the flesh.
Now, the early Catholics were in the faith, but they departed from the faith - they gave heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. Why were they not able to overcome them? The scriptures give us a clue...
The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own LUSTS shall they heap to themselves teachers having itching ears and shall turn their ears away from the truth and shall be turned unto fables.
They started in the truth and were able to endure sound doctrine for a while, but eventually they could no longer endure sound doctrine. Why is that? They did not crucify their flesh with the affections and lusts thereof. Apparently they thought that they could live for God without crucifying their flesh. They thought they could live for God AND satisfy their flesh with the affections and lusts.
Now living that way in a true apostolic church will cause one to repent over and over again, but eventually, they will grow tired of that and so after their own LUSTS shall they depart from the faith and get their own teachers who will tickle their ears. They will turn their ears from the truth and shall be turned unto fables - fiction - the inventions of men.
Why do people WANT to watch TV? Why is it? Is it not to satisfy the lusts of the flesh and the lust of the eye? Why is it that some cannot resist the temptation to fulfill the lust of the flesh and eye and to watch tv while others have no problem with it? Is it because that some deny themselves and take up their cross daily and crucify their flesh with the affections and lusts thereof? What is significant about the cross? That is where Jesus' flesh was crucified.
Those who will not deny themselves daily and take up their cross and crucify their flesh with the affections and lusts thereof will continue to find themselves fulfilling the affection and lust of their flesh and will find themselves constantly repenting; especially in a true apostolic church that preaches and teaches sound doctrine. Eventually, they will repent and line up, or they will grow tired and look for a church with a pastor who will preach/teach something that is more to their liking - the liking of the lusts and affections of their flesh that is.
They will begin to make excuses and to JUSTIFY their actions. Interesting how they compare tv to the internet, while the other group that has no problems not watching tv can use the internet with no problem and not need tv; however they can not say the same.
The interesting thing when the kingdom of Israel split was that when Jeroboam rebelled against the God-given authority of Reheboam, Jeroboam put away the Levites out of Israel. He disfellowshipped them. He put away, God's ordained priesthood and came up with his own way. But everyone whose heart sought after God, left Israel and went to Judah and Jerusalem. When Jeroboam realized that during the time of worship,
Israel might go back to Jerusalem, he created a substitute and told them it was too much for them to go to Jerusalem - it was TOO HARD for them.
Kinda reminds me of speaking evil of the way of truth.
What a great Post. I like the use of scripture to help make the point. I've noticed our liberal minded posters rarely use scripture to make the argument for lower standards.
What a great Post. I like the use of scripture to help make the point. I've noticed our liberal minded posters rarely use scripture to make the argument for lower standards.
If you think this is the case then you obviously either don't actually read liberals posts or you have a problem with comprehension.
I don't mind you disagreeing vehomently with the libs positions but at least discuss those differences on the merits and stop the silly and erroneous charges that libs don't use scripture to back up their positions.
__________________ "I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
If you think this is the case then you obviously either don't actually read liberals posts or you have a problem with comprehension.
I don't mind you disagreeing vehomently with the libs positions but at least discuss those differences on the merits and stop the silly and erroneous charges that libs don't use scripture to back up their positions.
I do read their posts and they rarely use scripture to make the argument for lower standards. Sorry, but it is what it is. By the way what happened to the "worst reasons for leaving a church" thread. Maybe me, but I think it disappeared.
Paul wrote of some who were enemies of the cross of Christ - he didn't say they were enemies of Christ, but enemies of the CROSS of Christ.
Jesus said, if any man will follow me, let him DENY HIMSELF and take up his cross daily and follow him.
Paul said, I die daily.
Paul understood that the flesh and the Spirit war against each other and that to give the Spirit the upper hand, one had to die daily and to get renewed in the Holy Ghost and to walk in the Spirit so that one would NOT fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Paul said, they that are Christ's, they that belong to him, true Christians, have crucified their flesh with the affections and lusts thereof. If you want to know a true christian, one that belongs to him, it is those who have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts thereof and walk in the Spirit.
You shall know them by their fruit, either they will manifest the fruit of the Spirit or the works of the flesh.
Now, the early Catholics were in the faith, but they departed from the faith - they gave heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. Why were they not able to overcome them? The scriptures give us a clue...
The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own LUSTS shall they heap to themselves teachers having itching ears and shall turn their ears away from the truth and shall be turned unto fables.
They started in the truth and were able to endure sound doctrine for a while, but eventually they could no longer endure sound doctrine. Why is that? They did not crucify their flesh with the affections and lusts thereof. Apparently they thought that they could live for God without crucifying their flesh. They thought they could live for God AND satisfy their flesh with the affections and lusts.
Now living that way in a true apostolic church will cause one to repent over and over again, but eventually, they will grow tired of that and so after their own LUSTS shall they depart from the faith and get their own teachers who will tickle their ears. They will turn their ears from the truth and shall be turned unto fables - fiction - the inventions of men.
Why do people WANT to watch TV? Why is it? Is it not to satisfy the lusts of the flesh and the lust of the eye? Why is it that some cannot resist the temptation to fulfill the lust of the flesh and eye and to watch tv while others have no problem with it? Is it because that some deny themselves and take up their cross daily and crucify their flesh with the affections and lusts thereof? What is significant about the cross? That is where Jesus' flesh was crucified.
Those who will not deny themselves daily and take up their cross and crucify their flesh with the affections and lusts thereof will continue to find themselves fulfilling the affection and lust of their flesh and will find themselves constantly repenting; especially in a true apostolic church that preaches and teaches sound doctrine. Eventually, they will repent and line up, or they will grow tired and look for a church with a pastor who will preach/teach something that is more to their liking - the liking of the lusts and affections of their flesh that is.
They will begin to make excuses and to JUSTIFY their actions. Interesting how they compare tv to the internet, while the other group that has no problems not watching tv can use the internet with no problem and not need tv; however they can not say the same.
The interesting thing when the kingdom of Israel split was that when Jeroboam rebelled against the God-given authority of Reheboam, Jeroboam put away the Levites out of Israel. He disfellowshipped them. He put away, God's ordained priesthood and came up with his own way. But everyone whose heart sought after God, left Israel and went to Judah and Jerusalem. When Jeroboam realized that during the time of worship,
Israel might go back to Jerusalem, he created a substitute and told them it was too much for them to go to Jerusalem - it was TOO HARD for them.
Kinda reminds me of speaking evil of the way of truth.
Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in, CC1...*sigh*
Bro. TOP, while I respect your convictions, I deplore your tactics.
When you say that those who would watch television have departed from the faith, will not endure sound doctrine, have not taken up their cross and followed Christ, AND are satisfying the lusts of the flesh, I take GREAT offense to that.
Respectfully, who are YOU?! Do you have a heaven or hell to put anyone in?! Do you live in my home and know what I watch and don't watch?! Do you know me at all?!
Truth is, no you don't!!
The thing is this...it comes down to trust. Y'all trust people's Holy Ghost in EVERY area EXCEPT where it comes to television.
And for Bro. Narrow is the Way, you want Scripture?! I'm not liberal, but here is a Word for you...
Phil 2:12-13
...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
KJV
There is much on television that I would agree is not worth watching or should be watched...just as there are many places on the internet that is not worth our time and should not be viewed by anyone, especially Saints of the Most High.
But as we trust people to make right internet decisions, let us trust them to make right TV decisions.
Let me tell, verses 12-13 from above say it all...I must work out my OWN salvation and it is God who works in me...it's not about me.
Regardless of the sacrifices made and the individual level of consecration, it would never be about me and how great I am...it's all about Him!!
And as hell is a real place, and I certainly don't intend to go there, I am doing everything I can to keep ME from it.
Maybe we should all do that instead of the constant pointing of finger in judgment...
As far as SEPARATION is concerned, the WPF was willing to maintain their membership in both organizations; it was the UPC that decided to do something about that.
The interesting thing when the kingdom of Israel split was that when Jeroboam rebelled against the God-given authority of Reheboam, Jeroboam put away the Levites out of Israel. He disfellowshipped them. He put away, God's ordained priesthood and came up with his own. But everyone whose heart sought after God, left Israel and went to Judah and Jerusalem. When Jeroboam realized that during the time of worship, Israel might go back to Jerusalem, he created a substitute and told them it was too much for them to go to Jerusalem - it was TOO HARD for them.
Kinda reminds me of speaking evil of the way of truth.
Really?! You mean the leaders were willing to stay in both orgs?!
I don't think so...
If you mean they were willing to allow folks to align with both, what sense would that mean?!
They make it clear on their website, in sermons preached, and in literature that they wish to fellowship with those who think like they do...that would not be the UPCI, or they wouldn't have left in the first place.
PtL Everybody. Romans 14:13 , Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
1st Cor. 10:23, All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
If my lifestyle (coversation), or anything I ever do or say, causes a weaker brother or sister to fail God. I'll stand in judgement... guilty.
Most all of us have come from different teachings. I'm amazed at the differences. This forum is not an ideal way to convey our thoughts. Things are lost in translation. I cannot type into words the passion I have for Truth. I just want to be real and right.
Anything I do, read, watch, or anywhere I travel, I want to know if Jesus is pleased with what I am putting before me.
For me, the UPCI is going backwards. Maybe for you its going forward. It is doing one or the other. And time will tell. I am very happy to be a part of the WPF. And that is what this thread is about. Have you been to a WPF Church lately? God bless.
TR
__________________
There is a conspiracy of silence in the land.
PtL Everybody. Romans 14:13 , Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
1st Cor. 10:23, All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
If my lifestyle (coversation), or anything I ever do or say, causes a weaker brother or sister to fail God. I'll stand in judgement... guilty.
Most all of us have come from different teachings. I'm amazed at the differences. This forum is not an ideal way to convey our thoughts. Things are lost in translation. I cannot type into words the passion I have for Truth. I just want to be real and right.
Anything I do, read, watch, or anywhere I travel, I want to know if Jesus is pleased with what I am putting before me.
For me, the UPCI is going backwards. Maybe for you its going forward. It is doing one or the other. And time will tell. I am very happy to be a part of the WPF. And that is what this thread is about. Have you been to a WPF Church lately? God bless.
TR
Bro. Tim, I appreciate your spirit in this discusssion. You are right that things are often misunderstood.
I have not been to a WPF church lately. One of the founders is a former pastor of mine...though I respect him highly, I feel the new org is a HUGE mistake.
But as you said, "time will tell."
I pray I am wrong in my feelings regarding this...
PtL Everybody. Romans 14:13 , Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
1st Cor. 10:23, All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
If my lifestyle (coversation), or anything I ever do or say, causes a weaker brother or sister to fail God. I'll stand in judgement... guilty.
Most all of us have come from different teachings. I'm amazed at the differences. This forum is not an ideal way to convey our thoughts. Things are lost in translation. I cannot type into words the passion I have for Truth. I just want to be real and right.
Anything I do, read, watch, or anywhere I travel, I want to know if Jesus is pleased with what I am putting before me.
For me, the UPCI is going backwards. Maybe for you its going forward. It is doing one or the other. And time will tell. I am very happy to be a part of the WPF. And that is what this thread is about. Have you been to a WPF Church lately? God bless.
TR
Bro. Tim,
There has been several times that I would read your post and be nodding in agreement and be touched by your sincerity...then just run into a land mine out of nowhere. I can't personally speak for all of the UPC, but my church is certainly not going backwards. The foreign fields that I am closely associated with are not going backwards. Every camp or conference that I, a family member, or my pastor has attended recently has been some of the best-attended and most powerful services in some time. Most of the reports from other camps and conferences that I've heard reflect the same.
On an unrelated note...how many WPF churches are there?
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Re: Have You Been to WWPF Lately?
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