Remitted on the Cross or not?

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by Adino

Dan! Great to see you, Bro!

YES! How frustrating it must be to never ABSOLUTELY KNOW if you've performed well enough to be viewed as right before God.

Talk about bondage!!!!!!

Yes... what bondage.. conditional security!

[Adino]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

Yes... what bondage.. conditional security!

You don't even KNOW if you have lived up to the condition. Yes, it's a life lived in fear.

Hmm... have I sinned today?

Have I mistakenly done something to damage my right standing with God?

Is there something I might have done, or might not have done, or even done inadvertantly which has caused me to be viewed as being out of right relationship with God?

Am I alive in Christ or dead to him?

Wait! Let me just pray about it and hope the big bad terrible God has mercy enough on me to forgive me again and again and again and again and again ...... even if I don't know what it is I'm trying to get forgiven

Where do I stand at this very moment with God?????

Hmmm....... I guess I'll finally find out someday at the throne. Let's hope I'm on an upswing when that happens

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by Adino

You don't even KNOW if you have lived up to the condition. Yes, it's a life lived in fear.

Hmm... have I sinned today?

Have I mistakenly done something to damage my right standing with God?

Is there something I might have done, or might not have done, or even done inadvertantly which has caused me to be viewed as being out of right relationship with God?

Am I alive in Christ or dead to him?

Wait! Let me just pray about it and hope the big bad terrible God has mercy enough on me to forgive me again and again and again and again and again ...... even if I don't know what it is I'm trying to get forgiven

Where do I stand at this very moment with God?????

Hmmm....... I guess I'll finally find out someday at the throne. Let's hope I'm on an upswing when that happens

Sounds like a lot like OSAS to me.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

Sounds like a lot like OSAS to me.

Sounds like he's not scared enough, to me.

[DAII]

Nope, Adino aint OSAS . Sounds like Blessed Assurance.

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

Sounds like a lot like OSAS to me.

[Adino]

Bump for Prax....

If we remain justified when we sin yet we need to get forgiven by God each time we sin, how is it theologically possible for us to be justified while unforgiven?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Adino

Bump for Prax....

If we remain justified when we sin yet we need to get forgiven by God each time we sin, how is it theologically possible for us to be justified while unforgiven?

Let's get something clear here. Im not saying we are justified while being sinners...ie not repentant.

Just because someone that is saved commits a sin does not mean he instantly loses his salvation or is not justified

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Adino

I agree that the person justified by faith can certainly 'sin again.' I agree with you that such a person remains justified by faith, BUT I reject the idea that such a person can be simultaneously unforgiven.

You've been taking the position that 1John 1:9 teaches a believer who sins needs to confess his sin in order to be forgiven. Since you hold that a man can be, at the same time, justified by faith and unforgiven, I need you to explain to me how this can be so.

How can a man be justified and unforgiven at the same time?

BTW, what do you think 1jn 1:9 teaches? Im just going by what it says, infact I didn't really assert anything rather I asked you about this..John does say "if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us"...

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Adino

The heart acknowledges depravity and returns to God through faith in the finished work of Christ. 'Receiving' forgiveness is 'experiencing' it first hand by faith. Man personally experiences the forgiveness of the Cross when he 1) hears the Good News of the Cross and 2) comes to place his trust in the once for all remission of the Cross.

Man 'receives' the forgiveness of the Cross when his heart is 'purified by faith' and his 'conscience of sin' purged. This miraculous 'healing' of the heart takes place when he calls on the name of the Lord in faith recognizing the finished work of the Cross took place on his behalf. Having a good (cleansed/purged/sprinkled/purified) conscience toward God by faith he is then baptized.

If a man is wronged by another, that man can forgive the other in his own heart whether his transgressor hears of his forgiveness or not. Consider the son who sins against his father and moves far away. In his dying moments the father makes it known to all that he has forgiven his estranged son. Years later the son comes to acknowledge his sin against his father and returns home only to find that his father has passed. He is devastated and his conscience of sin is tearing his soul apart.

Is the son forgiven? YES

Has he experienced this forgiveness? NOT YET

Devastated and yearning for a healing of his heart he finally learns that his father forgave him many years earlier and had never ceased loving him.

Upon hearing this good news the son chooses to place his trust in its reality. This results in a healing in his soul and a cleansing of his conscience of sin. The son moves forward attempting to live a life which would have been pleasing to his loving father.

How long had the son been forgiven? Ever since his father forgave him prior to dying. Though forgiven for many years, had the son experienced his father's forgiveness? NO, he did not experience the forgiveness of his father until he learned of it and came to rest in the reality of the historic forgiveness. The Gospel of his father's reconciliation brought healing.

Again, please explain to me how a man can be justified and unforgiven at the same time.

I think Im looking for something a little bit more meaty..besides "experience" what exactly HAPPENS to us when we "experience" forgiveness?

In other words though our record in heaven is clean even before we are saved, is there something that happens TO us personally upon receiving forgiveness?

Also how is that different than having Christ's righteousness imputed to us by faith?

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by Adino

Bump for Prax....

If we remain justified when we sin yet we need to get forgiven by God each time we sin, how is it theologically possible for us to be justified while unforgiven?

Judgment & Justification In Early Judaism And The Apostle Paul by Chris VanLandingham

The problem is you have a false understanding of justification and your view of the cross in relation to justification is flawed. I suggest you read the above book.