Paul's View of Women in Church Leadership

Originally Posted by Joelel

I didn't say a woman can prophecy only to women.

Originally Posted by Joelel

Women can teach,preach,prophecy to other women.

Not to stir the pot....but it kind of gives that impression.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Titus2Mom

Not to stir the pot....but it kind of gives that impression.

Hi,Yes if a person don't catch the fact that prophecy has three meanings.A woman can't teach men but can preach or fortell with men present.When she does preach or fortell she should be vailed.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Joelel

Hi Heavenly,Where does the word teach a woman is to lead the home ?

Allow me.

1Ti 5:14
I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

guide the house

Oikodespoteo
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
oy-kod-es-pot-eh'-o Verb
Definition

1. to be master (or head) of a house
2. to rule a household, manage family affairs

Yep. A woman is to be master as well as rule a household and manage family affairs. Does this mean her husband is under her? Nope. He's at her side, ruling and being master of the house as well.

My bible teaches me the man is to rule his home.I didn't say a woman can prophecy only to women.Note underlined.A woman can prophecy(Foretell,).Acts2:[17] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:[18] And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy

A woman can prophecy(fortell) in assemblies as long as she stays under the athority of the men).

I'd like to see scripture for that statement, please. I agree she should be under authority, but then again, so do men who prophesy in an assembly. All things should be done decently and in order. Men have no more authority to prophesy than women do.

Also, please post where you got your definition (fortell) or 'prophesy'. Thanks.

1 Cor.14:[29] Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.[30] If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.[31] For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.[32] And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.[33] For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

A woman must be veiled with a veil when praying or prophesying as a sign she is under athority of the men.A woman has two veils,one her long hair and the other a veil when she prays and prophesieth.1 Cor.11:[3] But I would have you know, that the head (athority)of every man is Christ; and the head (athority)of the woman is the man; and the head (athority)of Christ is God.
[4] Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered(veiled), dishonoureth his head(athority,Christ).[5] But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered(unveiled) dishonoureth her head(athority,man): for that is even all one as if she were shaven.[6] For if the woman be not covered(veiled), let her also be shorn(cut her hair): but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn(cut her hair) or shaven, let her be covered(veiled)

Unless you have proof as to otherwise, this was more a cultural issue and not a rule for all women. There is no proof that women everywhere had to wear veils when praying or prophesying all over the Bible. In addition, men didn't have to uncover their heads all over the Bible when they prayed or prophesied. Certain cultures allowed their men to wear headcoverings, even when praying. The Jews of today continue in this practice. Paul wasn't speaking to the Jews in Corinthians.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Joelel

Hi,Yes if a person don't catch the fact that prophecy has three meanings.A woman can't teach men but can preach or fortell with men present.When she does preach or fortell she should be vailed.

Ok. Prophecy has three meanings. Please tell me how you know which definition to apply when reading scripture and how you come to that conclusion.

Women can't teach men? You're unmarried, aren't you?

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Allow me.

1Ti 5:14
I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

guide the house

Oikodespoteo
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
oy-kod-es-pot-eh'-o Verb
Definition

1. to be master (or head) of a house
2. to rule a household, manage family affairs

Yep. A woman is to be master as well as rule a household and manage family affairs. Does this mean her husband is under her? Nope. He's at her side, ruling and being master of the house as well.


Hi,Yes a woman can guide or rule the house with her husband as head or head athority.The word head shows athority.You can't have two heads or chiefs in one house.I gave the scripture that says the head (athority) of woman is man.Other scripture also says a woman can not teach a man OR take athority over the man.She can't take athority meaning man is the head athority.

I'd like to see scripture for that statement, please. I agree she should be under authority, but then again, so do men who prophesy in an assembly. All things should be done decently and in order. Men have no more authority to prophesy than women do.

Also, please post where you got your definition (fortell) or 'prophesy'. Thanks.

Main Entry: proph·e·cy
Variant(s): also proph·e·sy \ˈprä-fə-sē\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural proph·e·cies also proph·e·sies
Etymology: Middle English prophecie, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin prophetia, from Greek prophēteia, from prophētēs prophet
Date: 13th century
1: an inspired utterance of a prophet
2: the function or vocation of a prophet; specifically : the inspired declaration of divine will and purpose
3: a prediction of something to come
Unless you have proof as to otherwise, this was more a cultural issue and not a rule for all women. There is no proof that women everywhere had to wear veils when praying or prophesying all over the Bible. In addition, men didn't have to uncover their heads all over the Bible when they prayed or prophesied. Certain cultures allowed their men to wear headcoverings, even when praying. The Jews of today continue in this practice. Paul wasn't speaking to the Jews in Corinthians.

1 Tim.2:[12] Please read the green print above in this post also.

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.[13] For Adam was first formed, then Eve.[14] And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.[15] Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety

.1 Cor.11:[3] But I would have you know, that the head (athority)of every man is Christ; and the head (athority)of the woman is the man; and the head (athority)of Christ is God.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Ok. Prophecy has three meanings. Please tell me how you know which definition to apply when reading scripture and how you come to that conclusion.

Women can't teach men? You're unmarried, aren't you?

Hi,The only thing a woman can't do is teach men.A woman can preach or fortell in the assemblies as long as she stays under head athority of the men.


Yes I'm married to a great wife who believes the word,Thank you.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Joelel

Main Entry: proph·e·cy
Variant(s): also proph·e·sy \ˈprä-fə-sē\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural proph·e·cies also proph·e·sies
Etymology: Middle English prophecie, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin prophetia, from Greek prophēteia, from prophētēs prophet
Date: 13th century
1: an inspired utterance of a prophet
2: the function or vocation of a prophet; specifically : the inspired declaration of divine will and purpose
3: a prediction of something to come

I see two other definitions, so again, why and how did you come up with 'foretell' as the definition you chose? According to the definition you posted, it doesn't have to be a foretelling, just a mere inspired utterance is prophesying.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Joelel

Hi,The only thing a woman can't do is teach men.A woman can preach or fortell in the assemblies as long as she stays under head athority of the men.


Yes I'm married to a great wife who believes the word,Thank you.

Nobody is debating that women should remain under the authority of her husband (not any man will do, sorry), but neither can men take unto themselves authority that doesn't belong to them.

One thing you aren't realizing is that God has ultimate authority, and His authority trumps a man's everytime.


Can you honestly say that your wife hasn't taught you anything?

If so, either you aren't being truthful, or you are the only man ever to not have been taught anything by his wife.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Joelel

[B]A woman can preach or fortell in the assemblies as long as she stays under head athority of the men.

The same goes for a man.

However, I don't see scripture for the above statement, even if I agree with it.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

I see two other definitions, so again, why and how did you come up with 'foretell' as the definition you chose? According to the definition you posted, it doesn't have to be a foretelling, just a mere inspired utterance is prophesying.

Fortell means to predict #3.The office of a prophet is to preach and teach,#1 and 2. 1: an inspired utterance of a prophet
2: the function or vocation of a prophet; specifically : the inspired declaration of divine will and purpose
3: a prediction of something to come