The role of an apostle...

[Scott Hutchinson]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I agree...with Scott

I'm honoured a great Christian like yourself would agree with anything I would write.

[Sister Alvear]

I agree with you many times my friend just don't always have a lot if time to post. Blessings.

[Barb]

Guess I was just raised differently...I can recall my dad referring to our then pastor, Bro. Henderson, as "Bishop" long before the office became a popular one.

It was done out of respect and because he evidently thought the Elder worthy of the title.

It seems now that we all are so skeptical of people...it amazes me.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by pelathais

"Always hoped that I'd be an apostle
Knew that I would make it if I tried
Then when we retire we can write the gospels
So they'll still talk about us when we've died"


The one problem I see with setting up a church organization based upon the New Testament model is that Jesus chose the Apostles. Of course the term "apostle" can simply mean "one who is sent" and in a generic sense every missionary is an "apostle" to some degree.

However, when you get into the office of an "Apostle" then you really need to look at the Biblical role that was fulfilled by these men and then wonder how we would accomplish the same thing in the modern world. There are many who proclaim themselves to be an "Apostle." This appeared to happen in NT times as well (Revelation 2:2).

The NT Apostles had the authority to write Scripture and to judge what was and was not Scripture. Like it or not, we have relied upon the offices of the Roman Catholic Church and its apostles and the apostolic authority of its councils to determine what is Scripture for us. I guess since we lack the real "Apostolic" authority, we have deferred to their authority.

Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it. Why do we as "Apostolics" rip on the RCC and claim that we're "more apostolic than they are." But when it comes down to the most fundamental role of an Apostle, we defer to their apostolic authority- and never question it.

Did He appoint them all?!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Put a shirt on the cave man and I'll confer the title of "civilized" upon you, Prax my friend.

First of all he's a charismatic caveman, so he can do that. Second of all...well...he's got so much hair it looks like a hairy coat on

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Barb

Did He appoint them all?!

Yes, with two possible exceptions, Matthias and Barnabas. Other than that everyone who is called an "apostle" in the NT was chosen by Jesus Christ Himself.

The case of Matthias is unique in that he was chosen by lot but was chosen to fulfill the Scripture that Judas Iscariot had to be replaced. He was selected as part of the "final two;" two men who had been selected specifically because they had been with the Apostles and with Jesus since the "baptism of John."

In the case of Barnabas we find him called an apostle in Acts after he and Paul were called out by the Holy Ghost and "separated" for the work. We are not told what this call from the Holy Ghost was- a prophecy, an audible voice? We don't know.

Paul of course saw Jesus Christ Himself on at least 2 different occasions, was accepted as an apostle by the 12 and bore testimony in his epistles that it was Jesus Christ who made him to be an apostle.

As I stated in another post, I believe in the apostolic ministry today, otherwise I would not refer to myself as "Apostolic." Also, anyone who is involved in missions work is at least an "apostle" in the technical sense. I'm just very uncomfortable with people who hang offices and titles upon themselves. I would be much more impressed if after having labored for years in relative obscurity, the Holy Ghost demonstatively called someone out and into the office of an Apostle. That would show that they can be trusted to work harmoniously with the body anywhere in the world and that they haven't called themselves apostles... (Revelation 2:2)

Also, an important note: the heavenly city is built upon a foundation of the "12 Apostles of the Lamb..." The "twelve" represent an office and ministry that apparently is no longer available for others to fill.

[Sister Alvear]

Guess I am just different I still believe in the five fold ministry...but whatever people are called WHAT they DO speaks louder and tells us what they really are!

[Sister Alvear]

[COLOR="Red"]I was reading my oldest adopted son's letter in Portuguese and translated it, I believe he has the same call as Brother Alvear. (this is the one that is working in the jungle[/COLOR


"And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose." (Romans 8:28)
We thought we would let you know how things are going here among the Indians and Brazilian forest people along with the village people we are working with. Coming up here there was really no one but us to start off with but after several months doors are opening and we are seeing the spirit of God brooding over this entire area.
First we would like to thank you for your prayers and giving on our behalf. When we made the decision to obey the Lord’s last command we did not know He would send us to the deep heart of the Brazilian rainforest however we are working for the Lord full speed ahead. Life is very primitive and things are very expensive in our only city for miles around. Most items must be brought here from long distances so everything is double or triple in price.
Thank the Lord Dad and Mom sent us some extra money and we were able to buy a fan. It is very hot up here.
We would like to thank especially Pastor Crawford Coon, Rev. Arlei Rowley, Sister Pope for helping us get this start up here. My thanks also to Pastor Brad Roberson and Pastor Causey and others that have helped me.
As most of you know we moved here to this jungle region with practically nothing but God is supplying our needs. We now have a stove, a small table, four chairs, and our beds. Our folks bought a little house with the help of their American friends for us and for our Barra do Corda church. We have completely remodeled it by tearing out the inside walls, the bathroom and putting in new walls and making a front room as a church. Even though we only have our 4 chairs we have had as high as 60 people in service with us. Many of the neighbors bring their chairs for the services. Our church does not have benches or chairs so we use our four chairs and we ask the neighbors loan us their chairs the nights we have services. I would like to ask you to consider helping us with an offering to buy chairs and benches. Any amount would be deeply appreciated.
In Barrio Branco we are buying a small adobe house to transform into a church and the headquarters church we are building in the jungle is on hold until we get some rain to see if our well is going to fill up to make building easier for us if not we will continue to haul water for the building project and redig in another place. However we think as soon as the rains begin the well will fill with water.
Sabrina (our daughter) has been having Sunday School classes for the children and it is so precious to see her so young telling others about our Jesus.
The people in this part of Brazil travel mostly by donkey or bicycle. The average wage is less than 80mdollars a month.
Every day God gives us a new and exciting opportunity to take the Good News of the gospel. There are over 10,000 Indians living in the jungles around us!
Our family is committed to reach these indigenous people with the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. We ask for your prayers and support as we daily carry out the work of reaching the lost, building churches, and training pastors.
We are willing to give our lives in this endeavor if needed. In order to evangelize we must have your help. If we don't help them, they will perish in eternal night without the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.
Our story is one of adventure, much spiritual warfare and much awesome fruit. I am so grateful for all that God has privileged our family to be a part of as far as His Kingdom work goes. As far as the fruit, I would not be exaggerating to say that I believe we are beginning to see one of Brazil’s greatest harvests. As you provide the means we will go into the regions beyond.

In behalf of those who have never heard:

Brother Arlei and sister Gilene

[Sister Alvear]

Now if he is really called HE WILL DO the work of an Apostle. So time will tell us.
As an old missionary I have seen a lot of people come to the field boasting of great callings....but fizzled out when put to the test. So the ole sayings is, "Some are called and some are sent some just packed their bags and went..."

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Barb

Today I have been reflecting about all of that has been discussed of late re the possible new organization and the idea of apostles and such.

I have heard some folks (not Apostolic) say that they do not believe in modern day apostles...that this died off with the first apostles.

Others leave it to an organizational body to appoint men to an Apostles Board (COOLJC for example).

But what does the Bible say about it?!

Is it a position one aspires to or is it thrust upon them?!

Do we have apostles among us today?!

What is the office of apostle for...what is his role in the scructure of the Church?!

First, let us understand that Ephesian 2:20 states that we "are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone."

My thinking is that if the Church was built on something, that foundation is still there, that being apostles and prophets...seems elementary to me.

Second, Ephesians 4:11-16 states...

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love."

So if the 'Five-fold Ministry' was given for the perfecting and edifying of the Saints and for the work of the ministry, it is my humbled opinion that apostles are operating today.

If I am correct in my thinking, it seems in order to set up a church or organization with that in mind.

As I may not be articulating my thoughts and questions as well as I ought (these long days are beginning to catch up with me), I'll let the great minds here make sense of this and explain the role of apostles in the Church.

I can't say for sure if Eddie Cupples is or isn't but with what I saw in Tenn. he is doing the work of an Apostle, being a Father to men under him, and overseer to multiple works.

Kenneth Haney did the same in Stockton, and my friend Pastor JP in India is doing the same overseeing mulitiple works.