Justification By Faith by Oswald Chambers

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by crakjak

I appreicate your much more merciful end of the majority of mankind, but I believe God is much more effective in His saving of those created in His image. God is not punitive, that is a characteristic of fallen man, it is not about punishment, it is about correction.

Luke 13:3 Is referring to a temporal perishing, not permanent annihilation. Those folks will be resurrected with the wicked dead, so it is not permanent. Why raise them just to annihilate them again?

Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

You know what Jesus was referring to; that unless they believed on Him they would likewise physically die in the destruction coming in 70 AD. He goes on to lament over Jerusalem toward the end of that very chapter.

PERISH means to totally destroy. Come now, you emphasize ALL means ALL. What about PERISH meaning total destruction?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by mfblume

PERISH means to totally destroy. Come now, you emphasize ALL means ALL. What about PERISH meaning total destruction?

Do you believe the context of Luke 13 is speaking of total destruction?

[TK Burk]

The issue of being 'justified by faith' is centered on the meaning of biblical 'faith.' Faith is not what you believe, but what you do with what you believe. Biblical faith is best understood as 'faithfulness.' This is why the "just shall live BY their FAITH." James referred to this when he said, "Faith without works is dead."

Such justification does not come from inclusiveness, but from living faithful to Jesus’ New Covenant.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

The issue of being 'justified by faith' is centered on the meaning of biblical 'faith.' Faith is not what you believe, but what you do with what you believe. Biblical faith is best understood as 'faithfulness.' This is why the "just shall live BY their FAITH." James referred to this when he said, "Faith without works is dead."

Such justification does not come from inclusiveness, but from living faithful to Jesus’ New Covenant.

Do you really believe what John Yoder says in your signature, I believe he agrees with my premise?

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Do you really believe what John Yoder says in your signature, I believe he agrees with my premise?

Please, explain what you mean here so I am sure where you're going. Thanks!

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by mfblume

PERISH means to totally destroy. Come now, you emphasize ALL means ALL. What about PERISH meaning total destruction?

All those who did not repent, did perish in the destruction of Jerusalem and Judea, unless, of course,if they perished in physical death prior to 70 AD. Again, total destruction of the physical body is not permanent.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

The issue of being 'justified by faith' is centered on the meaning of biblical 'faith.' Faith is not what you believe, but what you do with what you believe. Biblical faith is best understood as 'faithfulness.' This is why the "just shall live BY their FAITH." James referred to this when he said, "Faith without works is dead."

Such justification does not come from inclusiveness, but from living faithful to Jesus’ New Covenant.

While I agree with the way you tied in the thought of "the just shall live by his faith..." with James' "faith without works is dead..." I think you may have overlooked an important component of our faith, or perhaps merely left it unsaid; in which case I will offer it now.

Going through the various "live by faith" passages, all of which trace back to Habakkuk 2:4, is an interesting study. Just taking some of Paul's refrences in order of appearance:

Romans 1:16-18. Here the "power of God unto salvation" is contrasted with the "wrath of God" against those who hold "the truth in unrighteousness." We are told that the difference between the two groups is that "the just shall live by faith."

Galatians 2:16 follows the description of Paul withstanding Peter over the issue of eating with Gentiles. Paul states that we are "justified by the faith of Jesus Christ..." This is an important consideration especially when the passage from James that you cite is applied.

We live by His faith, we are justified by His faith and it was His works that made our salvation possible. "Living by faith" doesn't always refer to our own individual faith, most importantly it refers to the faith of the Son of God (Galatians 2:20). That's the source of our life.

Galatians 3:10-13 is a continuation of this theme. "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them."

Paul didn't just say, "You are cursed if you fail to keep the Law." No, he said "You are cursed" if you are working "under the Law."

The idea of living by the faith of Jesus Christ is not just a way to go about one's life; rather it is a way of avoiding the sentence of death that was passed under the Law. When we say, "The just shall live by faith," we are saying, the just get to live, the others have to die! Understanding this is critical to salvation.

If you are living a life based upon your own works, then you will miss salvation. It's that critical and that important. Instead, we must live a life based upon the faith and works of Jesus Christ. He is the key to eternal life.

[Bro-Larry]

Originally Posted by pelathais

While I agree with the way you tied in the thought of "the just shall live by his faith..." with James' "faith without works is dead..." I think you may have overlooked an important component of our faith, or perhaps merely left it unsaid; in which case I will offer it now.

Going through the various "live by faith" passages, all of which trace back to Habakkuk 2:4, is an interesting study. Just taking some of Paul's refrences in order of appearance:

Romans 1:16-18. Here the "power of God unto salvation" is contrasted with the "wrath of God" against those who hold "the truth in unrighteousness." We are told that the difference between the two groups is that "the just shall live by faith."

Galatians 2:16 follows the description of Paul withstanding Peter over the issue of eating with Gentiles. Paul states that we are "justified by the faith of Jesus Christ..." This is an important consideration especially when the passage from James that you cite is applied.

We live by His faith, we are justified by His faith and it was His works that made our salvation possible. "Living by faith" doesn't always refer to our own individual faith, most importantly it refers to the faith of the Son of God (Galatians 2:20). That's the source of our life.

Galatians 3:10-13 is a continuation of this theme. "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them."

Paul didn't just say, "You are cursed if you fail to keep the Law." No, he said "You are cursed" if you are working "under the Law."

The idea of living by the faith of Jesus Christ is not just a way to go about one's life; rather it is a way of avoiding the sentence of death that was passed under the Law. When we say, "The just shall live by faith," we are saying, the just get to live, the others have to die! Understanding this is critical to salvation.

If you are living a life based upon your own works, then you will miss salvation. It's that critical and that important. Instead, we must live a life based upon the faith and works of Jesus Christ. He is the key to eternal life.

Extremely well stated !! Brother. In MHO: Few people fully grasp the full truth of what you have stated here.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by crakjak

I don't believe you can establish a traditional Trinitarian view from his writings, so why judge him so harshly?? Besides Jesus came to seek and to save the LOST, so being lost is not the end.

I discovered OC when I was a very young wife and mother and was so inspired by his writing.

If he was trinitarian it really wasn't very apparent and certainly didn't take away from the depth and richness of his understanding of spiritual things and the deeper Christian life. I loved the fact you couldn't just gloss over his writing but you had to 'think' about what was being related.

I had never read anything finer up until that point as far as devotional writing is concerned.

[Sister Alvear]

I wonder why we are so quick to judge? I get scared when I hear people saying such hard things for with what judgment we judge we shall be judged..I hope I am not judged harshly and without mercy.