Why Did God Create Man? - Page 2

crakjak · #11 10-14-2007, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

God's providential care is active in all creation.

I completely agree. But from the traditional view of the punishment of mankind, can God be good still and allow thru his creation the endless punishment of man, the eternal preservation of evil and wickness?

mfblume · #12 10-14-2007, 02:04 AM

CJ,

All your posts circle around UR. Bro., nothing but the conscious exertion of faith in the cross will see a person saved, ever. As a tree falleth, so shall it lay... forever.

Raven · #13 10-14-2007, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

Isaiah 54:7-8: "For a brief moment I deserted you, but with great compassion I will gather you. In overflowing anger for a moment I hid my face from you, but with everlasting love I will have compassion on you, says the Lord, your Redeemer."

Jeremiah 3:12: "I will not be angry forever."

Psalm 30:5: "For His anger is but for a moment, and His favor is for a lifetime."

Psalm 103:9-10: "He will not always chide, nor will He keep His anger forever, He does not deal with us according to our sins, nor repay us according to our iniquities."

"O death, where are your plagues? O Sheol, where is your sing?" Hosea 13.14

Why did God create mankind? Temporal, individual and national judgment does not equal endless destruction or endless torture.

Crakjak
Hello my friend!
Why did God create man? This is a tremendous question that sends my thoughts into a thousand different directions. The scripture does give us some clues when it says, "throughout all ages, world without end" and "ages to come". For many of my parents generation the future is one big vacation forever in a 1500 mile city. But when you think of a billion galaxies, each with a billion stars, a 1500 mile city sounds very tiny for the plans of the awesome God that we know. To be confined to that tiny piece of real estate forever sounds almost like prison to me. No, the Father I know has Grand Plans that will continually unfold for ages to come. He is the Grand Architect, the Genius of The Divine Symphony, in which every written note shall be played out in all of its beauty and perfection. The wonder of it is that man is the centerpiece for all of this. You and I are the focus of His wondrous attention. To watch our God heal the wounds of the universe and bring everything into a perfection that would make a Swiss watch envious, is going to be one of the joys we will experience in the future. Our Father does everything complete and perfect with no loose ends. No one is meaningless in God's eyes and all will fit like pieces in the puzzle of life to complete our Father's masterpiece. "Of the increase of his government there shall be no end."

I don't suppose I came up with any real answers to your profound question but I have expressed a joy, that the God who sees the sparrow fall and the flower fade, has grand and glorious plans for us all, who are worth more than many sparrows.
Raven

crakjak · #14 10-14-2007, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

CJ,

All your posts circle around UR. Bro., nothing but the conscious exertion of faith in the cross will see a person saved, ever. As a tree falleth, so shall it lay... forever.

My friend, my intent is to glorify our wonderful Creator, Heavenly Father and Almighty God. The traditional view so blasphemes the character, purpose and nature of my great God and Father, that I can't not but tell of the greatness of His ultimate intentions. I John 4.14: "The Father has sent His Son to be the Savior of the world." I believe this to be literally true, if the Father sent the Son to save the world, the world is going to be saved. To me, the traditional view, quite frankly, means that the Son of God was unable to accomplish what the Father sent Him to do.

Having said that, the question I asked should provoke deeper thought, because the traditional view of the vast majority of men being destroyed or preserved in "endless torture" simply does not fix. God all knowing, all powerful could not have planned such an ineffective plan as the traditional view presents.

We are not obligated to call God good, unless He truly is good. The traditional view does not present a good creator, rather a horrible monster.

Hoovie · #15 10-14-2007, 02:52 PM

CJ, I have had some exposure to UR and know some who hold to the belief.

Can you tell me - does your church teach this?

crakjak · #16 10-14-2007, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raven

Crakjak
Hello my friend!
Why did God create man? This is a tremendous question that sends my thoughts into a thousand different directions. The scripture does give us some clues when it says, "throughout all ages, world without end" and "ages to come". For many of my parents generation the future is one big vacation forever in a 1500 mile city. But when you think of a billion galaxies, each with a billion stars, a 1500 mile city sounds very tiny for the plans of the awesome God that we know. To be confined to that tiny piece of real estate forever sounds almost like prison to me. No, the Father I know has Grand Plans that will continually unfold for ages to come. He is the Grand Architect, the Genius of The Divine Symphony, in which every written note shall be played out in all of its beauty and perfection. The wonder of it is that man is the centerpiece for all of this. You and I are the focus of His wondrous attention. To watch our God heal the wounds of the universe and bring everything into a perfection that would make a Swiss watch envious, is going to be one of the joys we will experience in the future. Our Father does everything complete and perfect with no loose ends. No one is meaningless in God's eyes and all will fit like pieces in the puzzle of life to complete our Father's masterpiece. "Of the increase of his government there shall be no end."

I don't suppose I came up with any real answers to your profound question but I have expressed a joy, that the God who sees the sparrow fall and the flower fade, has grand and glorious plans for us all, who are worth more than many sparrows.
Raven

Thank you, for a wonderful presentation that is worthy of our great God and Creator.

Scripture begins in Genesis with the creation. The subjects of creation and restoration are closely associated in Colossians 1.16-20. Verses 16-19, it tells us that all things were created thru Christ and for Christ and how all the fullness of God was resident in Christ. Verses 19-20 tells how God is pleased to reconcile ALL things in HEAVEN and on EARTH to Himself through Christ, who made peace by the blood of His cross.

When God created man, it was with full knowledge of the Fall, but it was also with a failsafe plan for the reconciliation and restoration of all things to Himself. Because ultimately, "every knee shall bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:10-11).

And this ultimate purpose of God is to equip us for the next age, not just to lounge around on golden streets and have nothing to do, just as you suggest in your post.

Thanks again for a great post.

Hoovie · #17 10-14-2007, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raven

Crakjak
Hello my friend!
Why did God create man? This is a tremendous question that sends my thoughts into a thousand different directions. The scripture does give us some clues when it says, "throughout all ages, world without end" and "ages to come". For many of my parents generation the future is one big vacation forever in a 1500 mile city. But when you think of a billion galaxies, each with a billion stars, a 1500 mile city sounds very tiny for the plans of the awesome God that we know. To be confined to that tiny piece of real estate forever sounds almost like prison to me. No, the Father I know has Grand Plans that will continually unfold for ages to come. He is the Grand Architect, the Genius of The Divine Symphony, in which every written note shall be played out in all of its beauty and perfection. The wonder of it is that man is the centerpiece for all of this. You and I are the focus of His wondrous attention. To watch our God heal the wounds of the universe and bring everything into a perfection that would make a Swiss watch envious, is going to be one of the joys we will experience in the future. Our Father does everything complete and perfect with no loose ends. No one is meaningless in God's eyes and all will fit like pieces in the puzzle of life to complete our Father's masterpiece. "Of the increase of his government there shall be no end."

I don't suppose I came up with any real answers to your profound question but I have expressed a joy, that the God who sees the sparrow fall and the flower fade, has grand and glorious plans for us all, who are worth more than many sparrows.
Raven

Excellent! And very thought provolking.

crakjak · #18 10-14-2007, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

CJ, I have had some exposure to UR and know some who hold to the belief.

Can you tell me - does your church teach this?

Stephen, my church does not teach UR, however have you notice how the teaching of a place of "endless torment" seems to be disappearing from most preaching. Is this something intuitive in the Spirit?

I have not separated myself from fellowship with the body over this understanding, I have a few friends that have heard me out and are studying UR with me, it is a very scary pursuit for most folks. Most are not willing to seriously look at any scholarly presentations of UR because of the disruption it creates in the traditional setting. I personally believe God is beginning to show "great and wonderful things that you know not of".

#19 10-14-2007, 03:30 PM

What is UR? I only ask because I asked a very similar question recently to your original post and got very few responses...

mfblume · #20 10-14-2007, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

What is UR? I only ask because I asked a very similar question recently to your original post and got very few responses...

It is UNIVERSAL REDEMPTION. The belief that the bible teaches eveyrone will be saved and no one will be lost. No matter if they aserved God or not, hellfire is meant to CORRECT them, which means hellfire is not forever. They ride on words such as FOREVER which technically means only an AGE, and scriptures such as how we preach reconciliation "of all things".

Where they fail is in misreading these references and not realizing that those references always QUALIFY themselves somewhere in the same chapter as referring to those who come to Christ in THIS LIFE.

They take... "every knee shall bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:10-11), and say that means every one will be saved, not realizing that one will confess He is Lord whether or not they are saved.