Preaching truth a hate crime???

It is already illegal to speak out against homosexuality in Canada.

Seems like the US is trying to streamline our laws in a variety of ways.

[Trouvere]

Speaking out on the street or in the synagogue?

Originally Posted by pelathais

RC is correct. The proposed law does stipulate a crime which "constitutes a crime of violence under federal law or a felony under state, local, or Indian tribal laws."

Summary of legislation. Text of legislation.

In order to be prosecuted under this proposed law one would have to be committing an act of violence. There are proposed stipulations as well that specify 1st Amendment protected activities like free speech are not even under consideration.

Like most "hate crime" laws I think this law is problematic because it creates protected classes of people. Someone can attack me but it's not a Federal offense if all they wanted was my wallet. Then the local cops don't even investigate.

Someone in one of the protected classes gets mugged and they get the assistance of the FBI to track down their attackers. Where's the justice?

How about laws that simply state it's wrong to violently attack another human being? We don't care what's going on inside your head. We don't care about issues that you had as a child during toilet training. We only want to know, did the cops catch the violent bad guy? Yes, or no.

We got him/her? Good, lock 'em up.

Those laws already exist...

All these laws do is make it worse if your crime is somehow motivated the gender, race, social class, or sexual orientation of the person you attack...

Murder is still murder, there is just this extra thing tacked on if you murder the person 'cuz they're black and you hate black people...

For instance, let's use what happened with Mathew Shephard...

The two guys who kidnapped him and killed him would still get all the charges they got anyways for what they did, they'd just get an extra charge on top of that for this. The acts they committed are still illegal just like if it was a straight man they randomly picked...

Basically the jist of this legislation is the admittance that killing someone BECAUSE of something is worse than just killing them... and I don't really personally have an issue with that...

Originally Posted by Titus2Mom

It is already illegal to speak out against homosexuality in Canada.

Seems like the US is trying to streamline our laws in a variety of ways.

The only sources I've ever seen for that are extremely biased Christian sites trying to scare people like the site linked in post 1 of this thread (read: they aren't credible at all)...

If you have any credible sources for this, I'm all ears, but as of right now I consider that a wive's tale...

[Sister Alvear]

In Brazil it is against the law also...

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by pelathais

RC is correct. The proposed law does stipulate a crime which "constitutes a crime of violence under federal law or a felony under state, local, or Indian tribal laws."

Summary of legislation. Text of legislation.

In order to be prosecuted under this proposed law one would have to be committing an act of violence. There are proposed stipulations as well that specify 1st Amendment protected activities like free speech are not even under consideration.

Like most "hate crime" laws I think this law is problematic because it creates protected classes of people. Someone can attack me but it's not a Federal offense if all they wanted was my wallet. Then the local cops don't even investigate.

Someone in one of the protected classes gets mugged and they get the assistance of the FBI to track down their attackers. Where's the justice?

How about laws that simply state it's wrong to violently attack another human being? We don't care what's going on inside your head. We don't care about issues that you had as a child during toilet training. We only want to know, did the cops catch the violent bad guy? Yes, or no.

We got him/her? Good, lock 'em up.

Does the bill stipulate what violence means? If not your words can be perceived as an act of violence

BTW RC quotes this as "proof". Note the part where it says IT COULD...It could what?
It could ultimately lead to prosecution for thoughts and restrictions on free speech and religious liberty.

Could that be a reason why many oppose it? We already have hate Crime laws on the books...why do we need another one?

Although H.R. 1592 prosecutes only “acts of violence” and does not prosecute expressions or opinions, it opens the door to examining the thoughts of not only a criminal, but everyone with whom he may have come into contact.

It opens the door. The problem is if this bill is not worded specifically to say that only physical acts of violence such as physical assault and not verbal assault or words that could be said to incite physical assault or worse, then it can be loosely interpreted by any court in the land to prosecute Christians. So we need to closely examine this bill and how it is worded.

An overzealous prosecutor could turn a criminal prosecution into a political correctness prosecution.

Exactly...this is RCs quote, not mine.

Broadly written hate crimes bills in other states and countries have been used to restrict the freedom of politically incorrect and unpopular speech.

Again...exactly! Thanks Reformed

This bill could be used to advance the politically correct agenda in this country by providing greater protections for certain classes of people. Future legislation could expand these protections and place restrictions on religious liberty and free speech.

And again...exactly. RC says this was a biased source but they got it right...

[Praxeas]

Now I have a question...why should beating the mess out of a homosexual and killing him because he is a homosexual be a worse crime for beating the mess out of anyone at all and killing them for any other reason? Why do we even need hate crime laws that actually end up forming a specially protected class of Americans?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

Those laws already exist...

All these laws do is make it worse if your crime is somehow motivated the gender, race, social class, or sexual orientation of the person you attack...

Murder is still murder, there is just this extra thing tacked on if you murder the person 'cuz they're black and you hate black people...

For instance, let's use what happened with Mathew Shephard...

The two guys who kidnapped him and killed him would still get all the charges they got anyways for what they did, they'd just get an extra charge on top of that for this. The acts they committed are still illegal just like if it was a straight man they randomly picked...

Basically the jist of this legislation is the admittance that killing someone BECAUSE of something is worse than just killing them... and I don't really personally have an issue with that...

Most violent crimes involve hate already. These kinds of laws are open doors for more special protections. It's NOT worse. Are gang bangers prosecuted for hate crimes because they blow away a child while trying to kill a cross town rival gang member they HATE? No...but if he kills a gay person and says "Hey homo...you sick puppy, prepare to die" he will get extra time. Absurd.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Now I have a question...why should beating the mess out of a homosexual and killing him because he is a homosexual be a worse crime for beating the mess out of anyone at all and killing them for any other reason? Why do we even need hate crime laws that actually end up forming a specially protected class of Americans?

Exactly. That's why I said,

How about laws that simply state it's wrong to violently attack another human being? We don't care what's going on inside your head. We don't care about issues that you had as a child during toilet training. We only want to know, did the cops catch the violent bad guy? Yes, or no.

We got him/her? Good, lock 'em up.

RC responded that "Those laws already exist..." To which I would say, "Oh, it's already illegal to kill and assault? Good. Prosecute those guys and don't waste a lot of my time on the sick drama that plays out in their heads. Just protect the innocent. Keep my sidewalks safe.

[bishoph]

These laws are being put on the books at the pressure of the GLTB groups that have classified themselves as the new "civil rights" movement. If the church is not careful not only will it be a crime to speak out against such debauchery but it will also be a crime to deny services to them.

I have interviewed some of these folks who are pushing for same sex marriage and they have admitted to me that in the end if it passes then they will have grounds to sue any church/minister who refuses them the sanctity of marriage.