Modesty vs Holiness

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

If anything dressing "holy" can be more for protecting your holiness life. I think that people have replaced the term modesty with holiness standards...the truth is that we need modesty, but a dress code is not what we need. But I think it is a mixing up of terms.

I wonder way most major corporations have dress codes that seem to stress modesty?

Isn't it for there protection?

Don't take me wrong, I've been raised in Pentecost, and have seen some that look "the part" on the outside but were rotten to the core.

We need to stress doing what we do out of Love for Jesus, rather than just conformity to guidelines. We need to stress listening to the Holy Ghost speak in that still small voice, rather than listening to the screech of the world or the lament of the self-righteous.

Seriously, I need to be asking the Lord to give me personal convictions, not corporate ones, give me maturity to manage modernization, rather than just doing the new thing because it's the new thing, make me accountable to my neighbor over just counting blessings, give me grace enough not to force my liberty on others or to feel threatened by theirs, and keep me from losing the beauty of holiness by conforming to the ugliness of the world.

[RevDWW]

Marriam-Webster definition
Modesty
1 : freedom from conceit or vanity
2 : propriety in dress, speech, or conduct

You can be modest without being Holy but
can you be Holy without being modest?

[Newman]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

I wonder way most major corporations have dress codes that seem to stress modesty?

Modesty? I imagine there is almost nobody on this board that would argue for something less modest than what major corporations would find acceptable.

How then can we talk about the modesty in the business world and dress standards (especially pertaining to women) as if they are on the same playing field?

[Newman]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Marriam-Webster definition
Modesty
1 : freedom from conceit or vanity
2 : propriety in dress, speech, or conduct

You can be modest without being Holy but
can you be Holy without being modest?

Can you drive a luxury car?

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Newman

Can you drive a luxury car?

Yes, I can drive a luxury car. Should I, would be a better question.
And if I shouldn't, should that preclude you from driving one? Or should I judge you as less Holy than I if you do?

My driving in luxuary should depend on if I'd be conceited or vain in doing so. If I did so to flaunt my (imagined) affluence wouldn't it be wrong? I would guess the answer would go according to motive, Counselor.

Should I worry about what impact drivng a luxuary automobile might have on a brother or sister that is living in a lesser state of luxuary, or having no luxary at all?

Would Jesus drive a luxuary car or SUV? Why or why not?

Are there boundries that bring freedom from concite or vanity?
Are there boundries that keeps one within a state of propriety in dress, speech, or conduct?

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Newman

Modesty? I imagine there is almost nobody on this board that would argue for something less modest than what major corporations would find acceptable.

How then can we talk about the modesty in the business world and dress standards (especially pertaining to women) as if they are on the same playing field?

It seems as thought there are some that would say different. That any standard is a blow against liberty. And if you don't like my liberty, you ought to........well it's always someone elses issue.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Modesty is a result of holiness in ones life.

I agree with stmatthew's angle. First we make ourselves holy by deciding that our lives, including our bodies, will be "set apart" or consecrated for an exclusive purpose. As a part of this consecration or separation we will look to fulfill the NT's teachings about how to serve God. This includes instructions for modesty.

So "holiness" first (as an inward decision) and then the outward expressions: modesty, conversation, conduct, and etc.

And "modesty" isn't just "covering up." It's the overall way in which we display and adorn ourselves. A $5,000 gown with inlaid jewels wouldn't be considered "modest" even if it covered you like a burka.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

I wonder way most major corporations have dress codes that seem to stress modesty?

Isn't it for there protection?

Don't take me wrong, I've been raised in Pentecost, and have seen some that look "the part" on the outside but were rotten to the core.

We need to stress doing what we do out of Love for Jesus, rather than just conformity to guidelines. We need to stress listening to the Holy Ghost speak in that still small voice, rather than listening to the screech of the world or the lament of the self-righteous.

Seriously, I need to be asking the Lord to give me personal convictions, not corporate ones, give me maturity to manage modernization, rather than just doing the new thing because it's the new thing, make me accountable to my neighbor over just counting blessings, give me grace enough not to force my liberty on others or to feel threatened by theirs, and keep me from losing the beauty of holiness by conforming to the ugliness of the world.

It is very much to protect them. But the truth is that is just as much to protect the employer. It is to protect them from lawsuits etc. I too have seen the "part-lookers" many times but I have seen people that were Christians to the core, but yet did not look like the mold that the pentecostals have seem to make. The mold needs to be broken! God molds us, not us molding each other.

One thing I worry about is when you said, "keep me from losing the beauty of holiness by conforming to the ugliness of the world." Why say that? Holiness is on the inside, yes it is beautiful, but it is interior. The fact is that the "ugliness of the world" should have very little do to with dress. The fact is that modesty is what is important. There are things that I would not wear and my wife would not wear, but that are still modest. Look at this, there is no place to buy clothing if you are a christian that the world can not buy there too. There is also not a place the world can go but the church can't. We may not look like everyone else in the "world" but the fact is that if we keep drawing this distinction then all it does is show a light on the extremist and not on the purists. No matter what you or I think there are people that do not look like us and have as close if not closer walks. They let nothing get between Him and them. God is no task master, He is a liberator. Do not confuse what I say. I am not saying we have a license to do whatever we want and it is all covered, because it is not. We are covered by grace and mercy, but the fact is that we need to "be holy for He is Holy."

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Modesty is a result of holiness in ones life.

Good idea but, what about the people that do not know God yet are modest in dress? I agree with what you say if you are referring to churched people. Though we are not about churched people are we? The truth is that there are a ton of results of holiness. Modesty, I think helps to protect your holiness. I am not for a dress code placed on us, though I am for modesty. Your opinions and my opinions about modesty and other things may differ however I think that you can understand what I am saying. It is like wheels on a car. The wheels are not part of the car (cause they can be removed), but the car can not go anywhere without the wheels. Modesty is not part of holiness, but modesty helps holiness go.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

It is very much to protect them. But the truth is that is just as much to protect the employer. It is to protect them from lawsuits etc. I too have seen the "part-lookers" many times but I have seen people that were Christians to the core, but yet did not look like the mold that the pentecostals have seem to make. The mold needs to be broken! God molds us, not us molding each other.

One thing I worry about is when you said, "keep me from losing the beauty of holiness by conforming to the ugliness of the world." Why say that? Holiness is on the inside, yes it is beautiful, but it is interior. The fact is that the "ugliness of the world" should have very little do to with dress. The fact is that modesty is what is important. There are things that I would not wear and my wife would not wear, but that are still modest. Look at this, there is no place to buy clothing if you are a christian that the world can not buy there too. There is also not a place the world can go but the church can't. We may not look like everyone else in the "world" but the fact is that if we keep drawing this distinction then all it does is show a light on the extremist and not on the purists. No matter what you or I think there are people that do not look like us and have as close if not closer walks. They let nothing get between Him and them. God is no task master, He is a liberator. Do not confuse what I say. I am not saying we have a license to do whatever we want and it is all covered, because it is not. We are covered by grace and mercy, but the fact is that we need to "be holy for He is Holy."

The ugliness of the world comes from an ugly heart. Just as holiness proceeds from a pure heart. I didn't say anything about clothing in that paragraph. You assumed I was talking dress code.

It seems all to often that some want to cover the shining of His light with a veil, cause the light scares folks, kinda like when Moses came down from being with God on the mountain. If we can just be a little more like them then they'll want what we have. Maybe if we exhibited a little more love and light they'd want what He has to offer.