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08-19-2007, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Brother Strange
The only position that I am against to the core of my very soul is all forms of Preterism.
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Some disagree with an issue due to personalities involved in the past.
Anyway, anyone who studies biblical prophecy at all will see through pretrib rapture theory first and easiest.
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08-19-2007, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
The Antichrist Fraud By Gary DeMar
Apparently someone hacked into the Planet Preterist web site and directed users to Tim LaHaye's Left Behind web site. The front page of LaHaye's site informs viewers that a prequel to the Left Behind series–"Before They Were Left Behind–will hit stores on March 1, 2004. The title of the new volume is The Rising: Antichrist is Born. LaHaye and company are milking millions of uninformed Christians of their hard-earned dollars on one of the most ridiculous religious scams of the century.
But before there was LaHaye, there was Lindsey. Hal Lindsey wrote in 1970 that he believed that the antichrist was alive somewhere in the world. He repeated this belief in 1977 when he wrote that it was his "personal opinion" that "he's alive somewhere now. But he's not going to become this awesome figure that we nickname the Anti-Christ until Satan possesses him, and I don't believe that will occur until there is this "mortal wound" from which he's raised up."1 In 1980 he restated this conviction by claiming that "this man [antichrist] is alive today–alive and waiting to come forth."2 What was false thirty-four years ago is equally false today.
Not to be outdone, Dave Hunt voiced a similar opinion in 1990: "Somewhere, at this very moment, on planet Earth, the antichrist is almost certainly alive–biding his time, awaiting his cue. Banal sensationalism? Far from it! That likelihood is based upon a sober evaluation of current events in relation to Bible prophecy. Already a mature man, he is probably active in politics, perhaps even an admired world leader whose name is almost daily on everyone's lips."3 Like Lindsey before him and LaHaye after him, Dave Hunt is confused.
Modern antichrist hunters are pursuing a figure who no longer exists. Let's look at the biblical evidence. The word "antichrist" appears only in John's epistles (1 John 2:18, 22; 4:3; 2 John 7). "What is taught in these passages constitutes the whole New Testament doctrine of Antichrist."4 You will search in vain to find the word anywhere mentioned in Revelation or any part of the Old Testament. John's antichrist is defined in the following ways, none of which fits the modern definition:- Anyone "who denies that Jesus is the Christ" (1 John 2:22).
- Anyone who "denies the Father and Son" (1 John 2:23).
- “Every spirit that does not confess Jesus" (1 John 4:3).
- "Those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist" (2 John 7).
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Could the Bible be any more clear? According to the Bible, antichrist is not a single individual, a world-wide political manipulator of the religious masses.
John wrote, "Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour" (1 John 2:18). Notice the "when" of antichrist. Whether there was to be only one or many antichrists, John made it clear that "it is the last hour" for those who first read his letters (1 John 2:18). How do we know this? John said, "Even now many antichrists have arisen." And in case you did not get his point, he repeated it: "From this we know that it is the last hour." John was not describing a period of time thousands of years in the future. It was the "last hour" for those living in the first century. They had heard that "the spirit of antichrist" was coming. For them, "now it is already in the world" (1 John 4:3). Antichrists had arisen in John's day.
An antichrist, therefore, is anyone who "denies that Jesus is the Christ" and anyone "who denies the Father and the Son" (1 John 2:22). "Every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of antichrist" (1 John 4:3). "For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist" (2 John 7). The antichrist is a religious figure, probably related to those Jews in the first century who denied that Jesus was the Messiah. John was not far off when he used the phrase "synagogue of Satan" (Rev. 2:9; 3:9).
Tim LaHaye's Left Behind series is a fraud, more fiction than fact. You will do better by writing to Tyndale and asking them to abandon the series and thereby quit deceiving millions of uninformed but eager religious seekers.
1 The Great Cosmic Countdown: Hal Lindsey on the Future," Eternity (January 1977), 80.
2 Hal Lindsey, The 1980s: Countdown to Armageddon (King of Prussia, PA: Westgate Press, 1980), 15.
3 Dave Hunt, Global Peace and the Rise of Antichrist (Eugene, OR: Harvest House, 1990), 5.
4 Benjamin B. Warfield, "Antichrist," in Selected Shorter Writings of Benjamin B. Warfield, ed. John E. Meeter (Nutley, NJ: Presbyterian and Reformed, 1970), 1:356.
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We invite you to freely distribute the articles written by American Vision on this web site and in Biblical Worldview magazine. By doing this, you will increase the awareness of American Vision – a ministry that desires to reach as many Christians as possible with the importance and relevance of having a truly biblical worldview.
Our only requirement is that you always include our contact information on republished articles (web, print, etc.):
American Vision P.O. Box 220, Powder Springs, GA 30127, 800-628-9460, www.americanvision.org.
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Quote:
2 Thess 2:2 - 2 Thess 2:12 (KJV)
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
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To bad Paul didn't know that there is not an Anti-Chirst maybe he would have written something different to the Thessalonians. (tongue firmly in cheek)
Seems like a good description of him to me.........
__________________
Psa 119:165 (KJV) 165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
"Do not believe everthing you read on the internet" - Abe Lincoln
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08-19-2007, 02:11 PM
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By the way we might should be looking for Jesus Christ more than we worry about the Antichrist.......
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Psa 119:165 (KJV) 165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
"Do not believe everthing you read on the internet" - Abe Lincoln
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08-19-2007, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevDWW
To bad Paul didn't know that there is not an Anti-Chirst maybe he would have written something different to the Thessalonians. (tongue firmly in cheek)
Seems like a good description of him to me......... 
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Maybe I missed it where in thess did he mention the antichrist?
__________________
Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.
The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
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08-19-2007, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevDWW
To bad Paul didn't know that there is not an Anti-Chirst maybe he would have written something different to the Thessalonians. (tongue firmly in cheek)
Seems like a good description of him to me......... 
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Paul never mentioned the term antichrist. That term has been distroted to mean a single man of military world domination. It is only used in 1 John and 2 John. And that is FAR from any military world dominator! LOL. It is SIMPLY anyone and any spirit that denies Christ came in flesh. How did that ever get to be twisted to be a military man of world power????
We assume things after hearing them without having first ensured what we heard was correct.
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08-19-2007, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker
Maybe I missed it where in thess did he mention the antichrist?
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Exactly.
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08-19-2007, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Paul never mentioned the term antichrist. That term has been distroted to mean a single man of military world domination. It is only used in 1 John and 2 John. And that is FAR from any military world dominator! LOL. It is SIMPLY anyone and any spirit that denies Christ came in flesh. How did that ever get to be twisted to be a military man of world power????
We assume things after hearing them without having first ensured what we heard was correct.
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Thank you!!!!!!!
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08-19-2007, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker
Maybe I missed it where in thess did he mention the antichrist?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Paul never mentioned the term antichrist. That term has been distroted to mean a single man of military world domination. It is only used in 1 John and 2 John. And that is FAR from any military world dominator! LOL. It is SIMPLY anyone and any spirit that denies Christ came in flesh. How did that ever get to be twisted to be a military man of world power????
We assume things after hearing them without having first ensured what we heard was correct.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Exactly.
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So you are saying the son of perdition is not anti Christ when he exalts himself against and above Christ? He's not trying to have world domination?
__________________
Psa 119:165 (KJV) 165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
"Do not believe everthing you read on the internet" - Abe Lincoln
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08-19-2007, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
The Antichrist Fraud By Gary DeMar
Apparently someone hacked into the Planet Preterist web site and directed users to Tim LaHaye's Left Behind web site. The front page of LaHaye's site informs viewers that a prequel to the Left Behind series–"Before They Were Left Behind–will hit stores on March 1, 2004. The title of the new volume is The Rising: Antichrist is Born. LaHaye and company are milking millions of uninformed Christians of their hard-earned dollars on one of the most ridiculous religious scams of the century.
But before there was LaHaye, there was Lindsey. Hal Lindsey wrote in 1970 that he believed that the antichrist was alive somewhere in the world. He repeated this belief in 1977 when he wrote that it was his "personal opinion" that "he's alive somewhere now. But he's not going to become this awesome figure that we nickname the Anti-Christ until Satan possesses him, and I don't believe that will occur until there is this "mortal wound" from which he's raised up."1 In 1980 he restated this conviction by claiming that "this man [antichrist] is alive today–alive and waiting to come forth."2 What was false thirty-four years ago is equally false today.
Not to be outdone, Dave Hunt voiced a similar opinion in 1990: "Somewhere, at this very moment, on planet Earth, the antichrist is almost certainly alive–biding his time, awaiting his cue. Banal sensationalism? Far from it! That likelihood is based upon a sober evaluation of current events in relation to Bible prophecy. Already a mature man, he is probably active in politics, perhaps even an admired world leader whose name is almost daily on everyone's lips."3 Like Lindsey before him and LaHaye after him, Dave Hunt is confused.
Modern antichrist hunters are pursuing a figure who no longer exists. Let's look at the biblical evidence. The word "antichrist" appears only in John's epistles (1 John 2:18, 22; 4:3; 2 John 7). "What is taught in these passages constitutes the whole New Testament doctrine of Antichrist."4 You will search in vain to find the word anywhere mentioned in Revelation or any part of the Old Testament. John's antichrist is defined in the following ways, none of which fits the modern definition:- Anyone "who denies that Jesus is the Christ" (1 John 2:22).
- Anyone who "denies the Father and Son" (1 John 2:23).
- “Every spirit that does not confess Jesus" (1 John 4:3).
- "Those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist" (2 John 7).

Could the Bible be any more clear? According to the Bible, antichrist is not a single individual, a world-wide political manipulator of the religious masses.
John wrote, "Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour" (1 John 2:18). Notice the "when" of antichrist. Whether there was to be only one or many antichrists, John made it clear that "it is the last hour" for those who first read his letters (1 John 2:18). How do we know this? John said, "Even now many antichrists have arisen." And in case you did not get his point, he repeated it: "From this we know that it is the last hour." John was not describing a period of time thousands of years in the future. It was the "last hour" for those living in the first century. They had heard that "the spirit of antichrist" was coming. For them, "now it is already in the world" (1 John 4:3). Antichrists had arisen in John's day.
An antichrist, therefore, is anyone who "denies that Jesus is the Christ" and anyone "who denies the Father and the Son" (1 John 2:22). "Every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of antichrist" (1 John 4:3). "For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist" (2 John 7). The antichrist is a religious figure, probably related to those Jews in the first century who denied that Jesus was the Messiah. John was not far off when he used the phrase "synagogue of Satan" (Rev. 2:9; 3:9).
Tim LaHaye's Left Behind series is a fraud, more fiction than fact. You will do better by writing to Tyndale and asking them to abandon the series and thereby quit deceiving millions of uninformed but eager religious seekers.
1 The Great Cosmic Countdown: Hal Lindsey on the Future," Eternity (January 1977), 80.
2 Hal Lindsey, The 1980s: Countdown to Armageddon (King of Prussia, PA: Westgate Press, 1980), 15.
3 Dave Hunt, Global Peace and the Rise of Antichrist (Eugene, OR: Harvest House, 1990), 5.
4 Benjamin B. Warfield, "Antichrist," in Selected Shorter Writings of Benjamin B. Warfield, ed. John E. Meeter (Nutley, NJ: Presbyterian and Reformed, 1970), 1:356.
Copyright information added by Admin below
We invite you to freely distribute the articles written by American Vision on this web site and in Biblical Worldview magazine. By doing this, you will increase the awareness of American Vision – a ministry that desires to reach as many Christians as possible with the importance and relevance of having a truly biblical worldview.
Our only requirement is that you always include our contact information on republished articles (web, print, etc.):
American Vision P.O. Box 220, Powder Springs, GA 30127, 800-628-9460, www.americanvision.org.
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John writes not just about anti-Christs plural but also THE Anti-Christ and the spirit of Anti-Christ. They believe there will be an individual embodiment of such a spirit who is also called the man of sin
2Th 2:2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2Th 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2Th 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.
2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,
2Th 2:10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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08-19-2007, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
John writes not just about anti-Christs plural but also THE Anti-Christ and the spirit of Anti-Christ. They believe there will be an individual embodiment of such a spirit who is also called the man of sin
2Th 2:2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2Th 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2Th 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.
2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,
2Th 2:10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
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We quoted the same passage and they wouldn't listen to me and I doubt they will listen to you.  The question will be asked "Where did it mention 'anti-Christ'?"
__________________
Psa 119:165 (KJV) 165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
"Do not believe everthing you read on the internet" - Abe Lincoln
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