NT verses about who Jesus was/is

[BCsenior]

Originally Posted by coksiw

I don't think you fully know what Oneness believe.

Thou art absolutely correct.
Who's willing to explain it to me?
How many of the following are God? ... F, J, HS
Thanks.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by BCsenior

Thou art absolutely correct.
Who's willing to explain it to me?
How many of the following are God? ... F, J, HS
Thanks.

It's all the same God.

Yaweh of the OT manifested himself in flesh in Jesus, and God is Spirit.

The term "Holy Spirit" refers to God himself as a Spirit doing something: creating, filling, orchestrating, etc...

The term Son of God refers to God incarnated

The term Father refers to God as the Father of all creation, including the incarnation.


Some people here may use more sophisticated terms, but I'll leave it like that. I hope it makes sense to you.

None of the verses you posted proves that they are different persons. They all can be interpreted as well with the Oneness.

Jesus praying to the Father can be perfectly explained by the fact that Jesus is 100% God, but also he had to be a 100% man so he could take our place. So yes, the man Jesus had to pray like we have to.

[BCsenior]

Originally Posted by coksiw

The term Father refers to God as the Father of all creation,
including the incarnation.

Jesus praying to the Father can be perfectly explained
by the fact that Jesus is 100% God, but also he had
to be a 100% man so he could take our place.

5 NT verses say Jesus created all things.
2 NT verses say the Father created all things through Jesus.
1 NT verse says the Father and Jesus both created all things (i.e. together).

Jesus (100% God) prayed to Father God often in the gospels.
So, how could They be the same God, One God.

IMO, your only recourse is to claim that someone tampered with the NT
and made it appear as if it teaches a Trinity, a Triune Godhead.

[JamesGlen]

Philippians 2:7-8
That is how.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by BCsenior

IMO, your only recourse is to claim that someone tampered with the NT
and made it appear as if it teaches a Trinity, a Triune Godhead.

Brother, I haven't even started yet. I was only explaining the basics and letting you speak and develop you ideas first . I'll be back.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by navygoat1998

Ordinary Oneness church going most of them all they tell can tell you is Jesus is the Father, and Acts 2:38.
Your guys have some well versed pastors who along with your Theologians seem to explain it.

There is a really watered down version of Oneness today. Many Oneness are ashamed of the doctrine because they are greatly outnumbered in "Christianity". True Oneness belief is only understood in the light that Jesus is the Father.

I have been attending UPC Churches for the last year and a half along with watching one on livestream. In this time I have not heard it taught or even mentioned that Jesus is the Father.

That does not mean it isnt true. I firmly believe it is. It seems tho that the modern "Apostolic" Preachers dont have the joy for it as in earlier times.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by BCsenior

5 NT verses say Jesus created all things.
2 NT verses say the Father created all things through Jesus.
1 NT verse says the Father and Jesus both created all things (i.e. together).

Jesus (100% God) prayed to Father God often in the gospels.
So, how could They be the same God, One God.

IMO, your only recourse is to claim that someone tampered with the NT
and made it appear as if it teaches a Trinity, a Triune Godhead.

Our recourse is to start with the foundation of truth rather than in the middle or end.

Lets start here.

Duet 6:4

4Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: 5And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

The battle over who Jesus is between Oneness and Trinity is NOT over whether Jesus is God but rather how many Gods are there.

If God is one and Jesus is God no one else can be. So if we start with the foundation of Duet 6:4 there must be a way Jesus is the only God and yet....be his Son.

Trinity fails here because the doctrine itself sets out to assert there is more than one who is God.

Among the scores of Trinitarian believers I have discussed with the consensus of their doctrine seems to be this.

God is one in being but not in person.

There are three co equal, co eternal persons, each one DISTINCT from the other.

This they declare to be ONE GOD.

In this view each of the three persons of God (God persons) is God apart from or distinct from the other two. The other two are always distinct from the other one.

And yet...this is a so called One God belief.

It definitely teaches if not outright three Gods at minimum three GOD PERSONS.

So the battle lines are drawn.

Oneness believes in one God the Father who manifests himself through Jesus Christ and three God persons of which Jesus is number two.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by BCsenior

God will be born on the earth as a Son
OT … Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6
NT … Matthew 1:23, Luke 1:35, John 1:14, 1 Timothy 3:16

Father God and Jesus Christ both have the same names/titles
Lord ------------ Genesis 17:1 - Luke 2:11, etc.
Lord of hosts --- Malachi 2:14 - see Zechariah 14:16
Lord of glory --- Psalm 24:10 -- 1 Corinthians 2:8
Savior ---------- Isaiah 60:16 - Titus 2:13, etc.
Redeemer -------- Isaiah 49:26 - Galatians 3:13
I AM ------------ Exodus 3:14 -- John 8:24, etc.
Rock ------------ Isaiah 44:8 -- 1 Corinthians 10:4
King ------------ Psalm 74:12 -- Revelation 19:16
First and Last -- Isaiah 44:6 -- Rev.2:8, Rev.22:13
Alpha and Omega - See Rev.21:6 - Rev.22:13
Beginning and End See Rev.21:6 - Rev.22:13
compare --------- Isaiah 45:23 - Philippians 2:10-11

Jesus claimed to be God
Matthew 4:7

Jesus claimed to be “I AM”
(which is God’s name “forever”: see Exodus 3:14-15)
John 4:26, John 8:24, John 8:28, John 8:58, John 13:19,
John 18:6, John 18:8
In the original Greek ...
there is no “he” after “I AM” in any of the verses above!

And Jesus also hints that He is the great “I AM”:
John 6:35, John 6:51, John 8:12, John 10:7, John 10:11, John 11:25,
John 14:6, John 15:1

Jesus was the exact image of Father God
2 Corinthians 4:4, Hebrews 1:3, Philippians 2:6, Colossians 1:15,
Colossians 1:19, Colossians 2:9, John 14:9, 1 Timothy 3:16

Jesus claimed equality with Father God
John 5:18, John 5:23, John 10:30, John 10:33, John 10:36,
John 10:38, John 14:9, John 17:22, John 20:28-29

Others claimed Jesus was God, or equal to Father God
John 1:1-2 (see Rev.19:13), John 14:11, John 20:28, Acts 7:59,
Romans 9:5, Philippians 2:10-11, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:8-13,
1 John 5:20, Jude 4

Jesus was the Creator of all things
John 1:3, John 1:10, Acts 3:15, Acts 10:37, 1 Corinthians 8:6,
Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:2, Hebrews 1:8-11

Jesus is the Sustainer of all things now
Colossians 1:17, Hebrews 1:3

Jesus had total power and authority over everything and everybody
Matthew 4:24, Matthew 8:16, Matthew 8:26, Luke 4:40-41, etc.

Jesus is the Giver of eternal life
John 4:14, John 5:21, John 6:27, John 10:27-28, John 11:25,
John 14:6, John 17:2, Hebrews 5:9, 1 John 1:1-2, 1 John 5:20

Many people called Jesus “the Son of God”
The Jews taught that “Son of God” and “Messiah”
signified equality with Father God:
John 1:41, John 4:25, Matthew 26:63
(and Matthew 16:16, John 20:31)
Therefore, the Jews taught Messiah = Christ = Son of God
Matthew 27:43, Luke 22:70, Matthew 14:33, Mark 1:1,
Luke 4:41, John 1:34, Acts 8:37, Hebrews 4:14

In all these verses can you single out ONE that is showing us there are three co equal and co eternal persons each one of them being distinct from the other?

I haven't seen any of them to be stating that.

Yet the first verse you present Isaiah 9:6 says expressly the Son is the EVERLASTING FATHER!

Welcome to Oneness BC!

[BCsenior]

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

Philippians 2:7-8
That is how.

IMO, Philippians 2:7-8 doesn't explain much.
We know the Word came from heaven to earth.
We know the Holy Spirit and Mary produced Jesus.
That's why He was called "the Son of God".
God the Word became the God part of Jesus (John 1:14).
The other part of Jesus was the human part.
Most agree Jesus was 100% God and 100% man.

[BCsenior]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

True Oneness belief is only understood in the light that Jesus is the Father.

Okay, how is Jesus (often) praying to the Father explained?