Epigenetics: Can sin effect multiple generations?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

I do believe in generational curses as described in Exodus:

"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"

The key part of this is the last five words of that verse: "of them that hate me."

I believe those who reject Christ will experience the generational curse.

Now, I don't disagree with you here. But, I would only add to the thought. Let's consider those who "hate" God. Hate has an effect on the body. According to medical science, those who are full of animosity, bitterness, and hatred tend to have heart problems, high blood pressure, and these deeply held negative emotions can even impact the chemical processes of the brain.

Based on this research... could it also effect the epigenetic tags of our DNA? Could a predisposition of hatred towards God be passed down in our flesh? According to this... if they are right... it is possible.

Now consider the progeny of those who hate God... with the effects of their ancestor's hatred having marked their very DNA. Now we actually can see the "sin" passed down. When these are confronted with the truth of God, their first reaction is an irrational rejection of that truth. This doesn't mean that it can't be overcome. But it might explain the irrational hatred in some upon initially hearing about Christ.

Such science would show that when God judges subsequent generations for the sin of their ancestors... He is actually judging that very sin, in the next generations. It isn't an arbitrary, "Hey, I'm going to curse you, and now punish you, for your ancestor's sin." It's actually IN them.

Once a person has been born again, they are a "new creature." Any bondage of the past or generational curse is broken.

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

Paul wrote of the war raging between the spirit and the flesh:

"Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

Notice how this "law of sin" is in the "flesh". It isn't in the spirit. There is a law that predisposes us to sin at work... in our flesh. And that would include... or DNA... would it not?

Now, when one is born again, the spirit experiences regeneration through the Holy Spirit. But the flesh has yet to be glorified. There is no change in the flesh, that is, in our members (or body). That means that those genetic tags could still exist. This could explain why some born again Christians seem to wrestle with some sinful proclivity all their lives. It's like no amount of prayer, will power, dedication, rededication, etc. gets them free. And as a result, they live defeated Christian lives, or worse, they fall away disenchanted.

What if we're approaching such saints in the wrong way? What if they need "divine healing" from such an infirmity of the flesh? What if we stopped just telling those who struggle to pray more or try harder... and prayed for their healing (body, soul, and spirit)? And what if such healing permeated their entire being, down to their very DNA, setting them free from the genetic tags that predispose them to certain behaviors, phobias, and emotional predispositions?

I'm not being dogmatic here. I'm just pondering the implications of such findings.

What if Paul was right, there is a "law of sin" in our "members"? What if in our "flesh" there truly is no good thing? What if our very flesh has predispositions to sin that extend down to the genetic level?

Please notice, I'm not contradicting your post. I'm just building upon it.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Thank God I'm not enslaved to my great great great great great great great great granpap's DNA.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Thank God I'm not enslaved to my great great great great great great great great granpap's DNA.

Amen.

I don't think it enslaves. I think it's more like inclinations.

For some reason, gambling on horse races is like crack for me. I don't know why. Now, I have victory in Jesus. Praise the Lord! But it was weird to me that it drew me more strongly than it seemed like it drew others.

I'd not be surprised if an ancestor of mine had a gambling problem.

I'm not enslaved. But this gives a possible explanation for that strange proclivity that I encountered and defeated in my twenties.

[Aquila]

Aside from any spiritual implications, this is fascinating.

https://youtu.be/zV9sya4F5KQ

https://youtu.be/kp1bZEUgqVI

[votivesoul]

"Merciful to thousands of generations of those that love Me" ring any bells?

Did Noah love God? Are we descended from him? How many generations have passed since Noah? More than 1,000?

[votivesoul]

Scientists are looking for an absolutely material realm explanation for psychological phenomena, so that spiritual things can be explained away without there having to be any "spirit" involved.

Speaking in tongues as the Holy Spirit gives the utternance? Nah, that's just regressive speech patterns being created through a placebo effect taking root in the brain.

If sin is just a matter of bad genes and DNA markers, then what need of a Savior? The clay in such an instance would have the right to say to the Potter, "why did you form me thus"?

If God is just and desires to end all the hurtful sin and evil in the world, to save people from their sin, all He would have to do then is cleanse the DNA. Is that what the Gospel is for? Genomic purging?

Where is the "Spirit" in that?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Scientists are looking for an absolutely material realm explanation for psychological phenomena, so that spiritual things can be explained away without there having to be any "spirit" involved.

Speaking in tongues as the Holy Spirit gives the utternance? Nah, that's just regressive speech patterns being created through a placebo effect taking root in the brain.

If sin is just a matter of bad genes and DNA markers, then what need of a Savior? The clay in such an instance would have the right to say to the Potter, "why did you form me thus"?

If God is just and desires to end all the hurtful sin and evil in the world, to save people from their sin, all He would have to do then is cleanse the DNA. Is that what the Gospel is for? Genomic purging?

Where is the "Spirit" in that?

So true. But I'm not affirming them. I'm just thinking, they could be stumbling on evidence they don't understand. They think the processes of the brain produce spiritual experience. I'm saying, they are finding the processes in the brain that are the result of a spiritual experience.

https://youtu.be/NZbQBajYnEc

[Aquila]

On a basic level, if they are correct, no man is an island. No sin or trauma only effects you. It changes you. And... Your choices and experiences can be effect generations after you when you have children. How much more important does this make living a righteous life. How much more serious does this make war, abuse, and oppression?

This blows away the argument that our choices only effect us. Everything we do might effect innocent descendants.

A sobering thought that science is confirming Scripture.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Aquila

On a basic level, if they are correct, no man is an island. No sin or trauma only effects you. It changes you. And... Your choices and experiences can be effect generations after you when you have children. How much more important does this make living a righteous life. How much more serious does this make war, abuse, and oppression?

This blows away the argument that our choices only effect us. Everything we do might effect innocent descendants.

A sobering thought that science is confirming Scripture.

That seems quite obvious, sufficient to say it's a given.

The abusive drunkard (for instance) is going to stamp all of his ugliness unto his children, who are going to be warped and likely abusive to the next generation, onward down the line.

But the Gospel can and does break the chain linking the descendant to that abusive drunkard.

[Aquila]

I believe that when we are filled with the Holy Ghost the inner man, the spirit, is Regenerated. Through the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit in our inner being we partake in the divine nature. And so in our spirit we have the impulse to obey God to the fullest.

However, the soul, our mind (the seat of reason, will, and emotion) is still accustomed to pleasing the desires of the flesh and is still accustomed to thinking in paradigms picked up from the world. We renew our minds through the study of the Holy Scriptures, prayer, worship, praise, and meditation. As we seek God, fill our minds with the Scripture, and practice Christian virtues, we train the soul to cease pleasing the flesh and we take on the mind of Christ, tearing down every paradigm of thinking that we've picked up from the world throughout our lives. As we put on the mind of Christ, we place our spirit and our soul into an alignment that empowers us to overcome the flesh.

The body, the flesh, is still unregenerated. It is still subject to genetic predispositions, biochemical processes, sickness, disease, and death. I believe that it is possible for the flesh to have a predisposition to various behaviors and desires that are sinful based on genetics, hormones, and biochemical processes. It desires pleasure, fullness, and safety. It is governed by genetics and feasts on the world around it through the senses. It must be denied, trained, conditioned, and controlled. Being subject to genetic anomalies, traits, predispositions, biochemical processes, hormones, sickness, disease, and death God has provided physical healing. The flesh will one day be regenerated in glorification. All these biological processes and conditions will be no more, and our bodies will not have a single impulse to sin.

And so the Christian life is often a war between the spirit and the flesh, with the soul caught in the middle. Soul, or mind, being the seat of will, must be conditioned and conformed into Christlikeness in order that will can be surrendered to the Spirit, and the body/flesh governed. Throughout life our flesh continues to desire pleasure, ease, comfort, and fullness. The biochemical processes continue subjecting us to various moods and conditions that arise from its fallen physical/biologic nature.

Many who struggle with mental illness, hormonal imbalances, neurologic conditions find themselves in the battle of their lives as they try to manage a body that is not functioning correctly. These individuals mind find themselves having to treat their conditions with diet, medication, supplements, etc. Some might encounter strong proclivities towards sinful patterns of thought and behavior that are a result of issues in their flesh that originate from biological problems or issues relating to their DNA. It is almost like the flesh has a mind of its own that refuses to be conditioned or trained. And so the same sinful tendencies continue to arise with vengeance. These people are often told to "try harder", or told they "just don't want to be free bad enough", or "you just have to make up your mind", etc. The problem is in the biology of the flesh. No amount of "will" can suppress the issue forever. As a result, they become discouraged and defeated. They are often looked at with pity and their struggle minimized. The real issue is... they need healing. But to receive healing we have to identify what must be healed. By ignoring the very real biological realities in our flesh, we subject many to an endless struggle that they could be delivered from with the supernatural healing power of God.

I believe that this might be very important or relevant in our day. We used to try to cast the devil out of those with various mental illness. Today, we know that it isn't a devil, it is physiological or biochemical. They don't need an exorcism, they need a healing. How many people could be better ministered to, assisted with proper medication, and even miraculously healed if we were not unwilling to take a closer look at what scientists are discovering about us?

These are my thoughts, feelings, concerns, and intentions.

Thoughts?