Happy Valentine's Day! A look at Valentine's Day

[Aquila]

Please note. I never said anyone had to observe the tradition or believe in the tradition. It was simply an FYI.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Aquila are you considering Roman Catholicism? Please forgive me here, but what on earth do we care about Catholic veneration of relics? May 24th 2018 is your name day according to the Eastern Greek Orthodox Church. Will you be celebrating that? Today is Ash Wednesday, do you think that we should all get the priest to crush out a cigar on our foreheads? Do you have any idea how many saint days there are in a Catholic year? Why pick one? Because a secular society picked it for you? This isn't the first time you posted this stuff about "How to incorporate Roman Catholicism into the Apostolic Movement" with your Xmas and Saint Nicolas threads, I even think you did one about Halloween. Bro, seriously, I have Greek Orthodox and Catholic clergy who I have known a long time. When they read things like this coming from Pentecostalish Protostantish individuals, they really wonder. Why on earth do they claim sola scriptura? Vatican II Catholics really don't have that hard of a time with it, and Greek Orthodox just shake their heads with under the breath laughter. Yet, Sedevacantist place their hands on their hips and shout HYPOCRITICAL BUNCH OF PHONIES!!!! Just put on the ruby red slippers and click them together and start chanting, "there's no place like Rome, there's no place like Rome, there's no place like Rome. God help us.

Good grief

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Please note. I never said anyone had to observe the tradition or believe in the tradition. It was simply an FYI.

or maybe you just wanted to to see if we are awake

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Please note. I never said anyone had to observe the tradition or believe in the tradition. It was simply an FYI.

FYI?

You really believe we don't know where all this religious papal baloney comes from?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

or maybe you just wanted to to see if we are awake

Sister, your Kung Fu is very, very good.

[Aquila]

I have kids. At their school they give out Valentine's Day cards and exchange candies, etc. My kids have asked why we do that. I gladly share the legends associated with the tradition. I mean, what do I tell them, "Ummm... we don't talk about that stuff." LOL

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

or maybe you just wanted to to see if we are awake

Sometimes, I do like waking y'all up a little for a good discussion. lol

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Aquila are you considering Roman Catholicism? Please forgive me here, but what on earth do we care about Catholic veneration of relics? May 24th 2018 is your name day according to the Eastern Greek Orthodox Church. Will you be celebrating that? Today is Ash Wednesday, do you think that we should all get the priest to crush out a cigar on our foreheads? Do you have any idea how many saint days there are in a Catholic year? Why pick one? Because a secular society picked it for you? This isn't the first time you posted this stuff about "How to incorporate Roman Catholicism into the Apostolic Movement" with your Xmas and Saint Nicolas threads, I even think you did one about Halloween. Bro, seriously, I have Greek Orthodox and Catholic clergy who I have known a long time. When they read things like this coming from Pentecostalish Protostantish individuals, they really wonder. Why on earth do they claim sola scriptura? Vatican II Catholics really don't have that hard of a time with it, and Greek Orthodox just shake their heads with under the breath laughter. Yet, Sedevacantist place their hands on their hips and shout HYPOCRITICAL BUNCH OF PHONIES!!!! Just put on the ruby red slippers and click them together and start chanting, "there's no place like Rome, there's no place like Rome, there's no place like Rome. God help us.

Good grief

No, I assure you that I'm not interested in Catholicism.

Greek Orthodox? I dig their beards. But funny hats aren't my style.

Ashy Wednesday? If I had a choice, I'd rather chill with a Rastafarian.

I know that probably over 50% of those who call themselves Apostolic are going to buy their love some Valentine's Day candies, dinner, and/or a gift. It's all over my Facebook. I also know a great deal of them will give their love a Valentine's Day card. Countless numbers of us have kids in schools that are exchanging "Valentine's". Yes, they are church going UPCI Apostolics. And we won't touch how even pastors are buying their wives "a little something" for Valentine's Day.

Now, I'm not the kind of guy that will board up my windows and ground my kids from going outside on these holidays and pretend that these holidays don't exist. Nor am I the kind of guy who will put on a tallit, march around dressed up like some ancient Hebrew, and blow a shofar while trying to celebrate some dusty old Jewish festival. I explain the origins of the traditions my kids might see and that many of us "Apostolics" even participate in. What's funny is... I know there are folks reading this thread who already bought their significant other some candies or something. And maybe they never had a clue about who Valentine even was. Maybe they never even thought of Googling it. But, now they know.

I never said we should venerate St. Valentine (who is most likely really a composite character of several different individuals). Nor did I encourage that someone track down some boring goofball with a collar and funny hat to participate in a liturgy. I did post something about the relics because when you see the tombs, bones, relics, etc. associated with the tradition, it brings a little reality regarding how old the traditions might be. So, those who profess it is nothing but a "Hallmark holiday" are just woefully ignorant of the history.

For me personally, this is just interesting historical banter and an FYI kind of thing. I don't see any spiritual significance in it at all.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

FYI?

You really believe we don't know where all this religious papal baloney comes from?

You're assuming I was writing this for you specifically?

I was only presenting it for those who might not know.

[Aquila]

I might as well stir the pot a little though. Maybe an interesting conversation will follow. Okay... here goes...

The only theological question that I think of that might be of any relevance that might come from this thread is in relation to... the ancient belief in relics. Now, I don't believe in the relics thing. I think they were fraudulent trinkets and bones sold to hapless people by snake oil salesmen. But... behind every counterfeit... there is typically some kind of reality. I want to focus on what possible realities might exist that led to this ancient belief in relics.

Based on 2 Kings 13:21 (Elisha's bones), Mark 5:25-30 ("virtue" departing from Christ upon having his garment touched), and Acts 19:11-12 (the aprons taken from the body of Paul that healed and delivered those in need)... is it possible for physical objects to harbor, or be conduits, of divine power?

I used to believe that these things were just objects that helped to activate the faith of individuals... but then there's the problem of a dead man being raised to life upon touching Elisha's bones. He was dead. He had no "faith" or conscious awareness on earth to speak of. It's like Elisha's bones remained loaded with enough power to perform at least one more miracle. And of course, we know that when Elisha died, he was one miracle shy of completely doubling the miracles witnessed in Elijah's ministry. So, this one last miracle fulfilled the "double portion" of the anointing that Elisha was said to have attained. I don't think Elisha's bones could be used as a "relic" to heal or raise the dead after this one final miracle. I believe that whatever was in those bones was most likely spent upon raising the dead man to life. But such a thing could give rise to the superstitious belief that they might. And such a thing begs the question as to if objects, or things like bones, garments, aprons, belongings, etc. might harbor some residual power. Our elders believed in prayer cloths. But the focus seemed to be more on the cloths than explaining the significance of the spiritual realities or processes involved.

Thoughts? Or is this worthy of having its own thread?