Disqualifications for ministry

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Whoop Harted

So is it Biblical for a Pastor to have a Pastor?

What happens when that Pastor's pastor dies? Does he get new pastor?

Who is the Pastor' Pastor's Pastor?

Does this sound like a pyramid scheme? Who gets to be the Pope?

Maybe the question is not whether a pastor has a pastor, rather what a true pastor is and what his responsibilities really are. A good place to start might be the base meaning of what a shepherd looks like.

Further more as this thread is disqualifications of ministry, where do we make the leap that qualifications for a Bishop point to ministry? The two words minister and Bishop are not even in the same classification in meaning.

A minster is a servant, how then does one give submission to a servant.
A Bishop is an overseer, superintendent. The word pastor comes from the word Shepherd, study the meaning of what a shepherd was in those days. It does not come close to the definition of what we term a pastor today, nor Bishop.

Ephesians 4 states God gave gifts to the body for the equipping of the body to minister. WE ARE ALL MINISTERS

[shag]

Originally Posted by Whoop Harted

So is it Biblical for a Pastor to have a Pastor?

What happens when that Pastor's pastor dies? Does he get new pastor?

Who is the Pastor' Pastor's Pastor?

Does this sound like a pyramid scheme? Who gets to be the Pope?

According to Acts 20:17 & 28
Popes plural over each church assembly. Accountable to eachother.

The bible way

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Maybe the question is not whether a pastor has a pastor, rather what a true pastor is and what his responsibilities really are. A good place to start might be the base meaning of what a shepherd looks like.

Further more as this thread is disqualifications of ministry, where do we make the leap that qualifications for a Bishop point to ministry? The two words minister and Bishop are not even in the same classification in meaning.

A minster is a servant, how then does one give submission to a servant.
A Bishop is an overseer, superintendent. The word pastor comes from the word Shepherd, study the meaning of what a shepherd was in those days. It does not come close to the definition of what we term a pastor today, nor Bishop.

Ephesians 4 states God gave gifts to the body for the equipping of the body to minister. WE ARE ALL MINISTERS

Actually, a "deacon" is a "servant" or "minister". And there is obviously a connection between "deacon" and "bishop" in Paul's instructions.

1 Timothy 3:2 says a bishop must be "apt to teach." That is, a bishop must be able to teach. Teaching is definitely a "ministry".

A shepherd (pastor) is one who "watches over" a flock of sheep and feeds them. An overseer is one who watches over an assembly and feeds (teaches) them. While not every pastor has the office of overseer, it seems every overseer has a pastoral function.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

[B](1)[/B ]Maybe the question is not whether a pastor has a pastor, rather what a true pastor is and what his responsibilities really are. A good place to start might be the base meaning of what a shepherd looks like.
Further more as this thread is disqualifications of ministry, where do we make the leap that qualifications for a Bishop point to ministry? The two words minister and Bishop are not even in the same classification in meaning.
(2) A minster is a servant, how then does one give submission to a servant.
A Bishop is an overseer, superintendent. The word pastor comes from the word Shepherd, study the meaning of what a shepherd was in those days. It does not come close to the definition of what we term a pastor today, nor Bishop.
(3) Ephesians 4 states God gave gifts to the body for the equipping of the body to minister. WE ARE ALL MINISTERS

(1) Of course pastors have pastors; every office in the Ministry has the
Ministry over each other: that is called SUBMISSION!

(2) No office is locked up in a box and subject to only themselves. The
Ministry is subject one to another, and complement one another.

(3) The Lord established the Ministry: "...some, apostles; and some,
prophets;..." etc. But no, we ARE NOT all in the Ministry (as you seem to
imply), but we are ALL called to minister one to another, and to the world.

Surely the Lord has made certain distinctions between the "Ministry",
and the ability to "minister" one to another!

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets,
thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, Are all
apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

[Michael The Disciple]

How about a man who's wife backslid and turned to whoredom? Is he disqualified?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

1This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 6Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

8Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; 9Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. 10And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. 11Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. 12Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Am I right in reading this that if your children are not living right, then you are disqualified?
Or if you do not have a good report of those not in the church you are disqualified?

I believe this has to do with children in the home. Also, keep things in perspective, in ancient times a 12 year old was essentially regarded as being a man and most were married by 15 or 16.

When it comes to the "good report", I would say that it means that there are no outstanding criminal charges or that one isn't considered suspect in any criminal activity or immoral practice. The should have a relatively clean reputation.

[Aquila]

A pastor once told me that these were Paul's "recommendations" and that they are not to be treated as dogma. For example we read,

2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife,

Clearly Paul felt it best that an elder should be married. However, we know that Paul wasn't married and that Paul was also an elder.

1 Peter 5:1 (KJV)
"The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:"

So, I was taught that while these are strong admonitions regarding eldership and the deaconate, they are only guidelines, not "requirements". Ultimately God calls the individual and confirms that calling through the Spirit.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Aquila

A pastor once told me that these were Paul's "recommendations" and that they are not to be treated as dogma. For example we read,

(1)

2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife,

Clearly Paul felt it best that an elder should be married. However, we know that Paul wasn't married and that Paul was also an elder.

1 Peter 5:1 (KJV)
"The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:"

So, I was taught that while these are strong admonitions regarding eldership and the deaconate, they are only guidelines, not "requirements". Ultimately God calls the individual and confirms that calling through the Spirit.

The bishop must be faithful, and the husband of only ONE WIFE
(not have married another woman while his wife lives). The (your?)
pastor seems to imply that a man can have only one wife at a time!

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

A pastor once told me that these were Paul's "recommendations" and that they are not to be treated as dogma.

So, I was taught that while these are strong admonitions regarding eldership and the deaconate, they are only guidelines, not "requirements".

THIS is one of the main problems with modern 'Christianity' today. People take clear unambiguous statements of Scripture and just decide 'these are only suggestions but do what you want'.

And so, we have masses of people who do just that, and then we wonder why there is so much spiritual anarchy in the church?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

THIS is one of the main problems with modern 'Christianity' today. People take clear unambiguous statements of Scripture and just decide 'these are only suggestions but do what you want'.

And so, we have masses of people who do just that, and then we wonder why there is so much spiritual anarchy in the church?