Atheists Taking A Stand!

[Fionn mac Cumh]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

The infamous "separation of church and state" appears nowhere in our founding documents. It was in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson and dealt with the issue that a state should not have an official state religion. By which he meant appointment of a specific organization. He clearly believed that Christianity was the official religion, just not a specific congregation/organization.
Here is a link to the letter.
https://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html
and here is how he ended it.
"I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem."
Also, Jefferson attended church services which were held in the House of Representatives. So, he obviously had a different interpretation of "separation" that what is meant now.

Again, we are not talking about what they did in their personal lives. I am talking about governing this country with religious view point.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Thats cut and dry straight up.

I am for freedom of religion, & against all maneuvres to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Elbridge Gerry, 1799 (see Positive Atheism's Historical section)

Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual. Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the "wall of separation between church and state," therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.
We have solved, by fair experiment, the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.
-- Thomas Jefferson, to the Virginia Baptists (1808) ME 16:320. This is his second kown use of the term "wall of separation," here quoting his own use in the Danbury Baptist letter. This wording of the original was several times upheld by the Supreme Court as an accurate description of the Establishment Clause: Reynolds (98 US at 164, 1879); Everson (330 US at 59, 1947); McCollum (333 US at 232, 1948)

[aegsm76]

You cannot "govern" any country without using some kind of religious viewpoint.

fmc - do you have a problem with prayer before public events? Do you have any issue with placing quotes from the Bible in public places?
If you answered these with a "yes", then you do not understand what Jefferson or the founders intended.
They opened all meetings with a prayer and Biblical quotes are all over Washington DC, carved into stone.
Congress still opens sessions with a prayer.
SCOTUS still opens sessions with a prayer.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Fionn mac Cumh

We have a freedoms of religion. The government however, is supposed to be separate from the church. If we were supposed to be christian or destined to be christian, why isnt there a national religion? Why is there separation of church and state?

'Separation of Church and State' is NO WHERE in the Constitution.

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

The infamous "separation of church and state" appears nowhere in our founding documents. It was in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson and dealt with the issue that a state should not have an official state religion. By which he meant appointment of a specific organization. He clearly believed that Christianity was the official religion, just not a specific congregation/organization.
Here is a link to the letter.
https://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html
and here is how he ended it.
"I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem."
Also, Jefferson attended church services which were held in the House of Representatives. So, he obviously had a different interpretation of "separation" that what is meant now.

Exactly. People love to throw around the term, but they have absolutely no idea of where it came from, or what it really means.