Ministering To Victims Of Incest.

[Subdued]

Originally Posted by Chan

Which is why a pastor, elder or other mature saint (and NOT some practitioner of psychology) needs to help the person come to that place - help they need the power and wisdom of God's Spirit to provide.

Without a doubt, they need the power and wisdom of God's Spirit!!!!!! I don't see anything wrong with a Christian counselor/therapist providing guidance, though. (Nor do I have objections to a pastor, elder or other mature saint offering guidance either.)

Originally Posted by Chan

It's all in God's timing, if we don't resist His working in us.

I haven't met many who were sexually abused/molested who DIDN'T resist His working in them, though. Have you?

Originally Posted by Subdued

Without a doubt, they need the power and wisdom of God's Spirit!!!!!! I don't see anything wrong with a Christian counselor/therapist providing guidance, though. (Nor do I have objections to a pastor, elder or other mature saint offering guidance either.)

Wicked worldly philosophies (all worldly philosophies are wicked simply because they are of the world) have no place in the Church! God does not call people to be so-called "Christian counselors/therapists" because God does not call people to be practitioners of wicked worldly philosophies like psychology. He has established His divine order in the Church and there is no place in it for counselors/therapists - we have elders, pastors and other mature saints for such purposes.

I haven't met many who were sexually abused/molested who DIDN'T resist His working in them, though. Have you?

No.

[Subdued]

Originally Posted by Chan

Wicked worldly philosophies (all worldly philosophies are wicked simply because they are of the world) have no place in the Church! God does not call people to be so-called "Christian counselors/therapists" because God does not call people to be practitioners of wicked worldly philosophies like psychology. He has established His divine order in the Church and there is no place in it for counselors/therapists - we have elders, pastors and other mature saints for such purposes.

I understand your opinion. Mine differs slightly. But I don't have the same perseverance you seem to have to debate the issue. However, I will say that any counseling that is biblicly based is okay with me; no matter WHO it is that does the counseling. What I would want in a "counselor" is for them to point me towards the Lord and then help me get there.

[Malvaro]

Originally Posted by TalkLady

Whatever you do, DO NOT personally mention that God is like a Heavenly Father to them. They can't relate to that. You have to be very very gentle to them. It's almost as though they need a Mentor so that they can learn things that others who were not in that type of situation take for granted. They have to learn how to be accepted and they have to learn to trust others. The person who should have been their protector was their violator. The scars from those wounds will always be there for them to see, but the wound itself can be healed. Most of all, be gentle. Gentleness is a fruit of the spirit and should be used often with these people. We have worked with children who were abused by their own fathers, step-fathers, other relatives, mom's boyfriends and even moms themselves. This is a sad, sad situation. Most of all do something in your church to make them feel needed and important. Show them love and never condemn them, for often they blame themselves.

That is assuming that their father was the one who violated them.... it could have as easily been some other family member instead.... I do agree with you though, they could associate the word "Father" with all their hurtful pain and past.... and immediately become soured by their memories against God....

still, one cannot just stop preaching that there is a Heavenly Father that loves us without conditions.... one just has to be careful to successfully rebuild their "father" definition and the associations that come with it.... the same could be said about referencing "the home".... their "home" experience may have been broken by divorce, abuse, addictions, etc and your careless usage of the word "home" may turn them off to what you are saying....

my pastor taught that you should also be careful who you lay hands on to pray for as well.... as you may be praying for an "abused" individual and they may become immediately offended by "touch" due to their past.... when I'm praying for a lady, I will only touch their forehead or the palm of their hand (if their hand is uplifted).... I see some folks touching arms, shoulders, back, etc and just want to smack them right then and there.... some poor soul may be reliving their trauma and never step foot in that church again....

pardon my ramblings....

Licensed counselors are advised to maintain malpractice insurance for liability issues... should preachers who counsel do this as well? And can they get it if they have not actually been formally trained to counsel?

[Malvaro]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

Licensed counselors are advised to maintain malpractice insurance for liability issues... should preachers who counsel do this as well? And can they get it if they have not actually been formally trained to counsel?

ummmm, I've heard this question before.... i think the work-around is to up-front to specify that you are not attempting to professionally counsel them (or replace counselling for that matter), you are just sharing what the Word of God already says about the topic and praying with them, if need be....

the fact that you are not attempting to counsel/consult them and only focusing on what's in the scriptures ensures that you are not over-stepping your "professional" bounds of training/education.... being a pastor and staying in the Word is allowable as that is within your normal realm of ministry, operation, and training....

I may have butchered the technical verbaige on that, but I'm pretty sure thats the underlying thought.... Rhoni would probably have insight regarding this question....

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

Licensed counselors are advised to maintain malpractice insurance for liability issues... should preachers who counsel do this as well? And can they get it if they have not actually been formally trained to counsel?

Many states do not offer the same protection for a Preacher who counsels. ChurchStart 101 classes should tell the preacher to have good insurance. There are two major insurance carriers who specialize in church policies now. GuideOne and Church Mutual. Both offer packages including liability.

Originally Posted by Subdued

I understand your opinion. Mine differs slightly. But I don't have the same perseverance you seem to have to debate the issue. However, I will say that any counseling that is biblicly based is okay with me; no matter WHO it is that does the counseling. What I would want in a "counselor" is for them to point me towards the Lord and then help me get there.

I guess there are actually two issues for me here: 1) psychology itself because it is a wicked worldly philosophy and; 2) this proliferation of usurping the roles of elders, pastors and mature saints by so-called "parachurch ministries."

[Lost]

Originally Posted by Chan

I guess there are actually two issues for me here: 1) psychology itself because it is a wicked worldly philosophy and; 2) this proliferation of usurping the roles of elders, pastors and mature saints by so-called "parachurch ministries."

I wonder what Rhoni thinks about that?

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

Licensed counselors are advised to maintain malpractice insurance for liability issues... should preachers who counsel do this as well? And can they get it if they have not actually been formally trained to counsel?

You mean "formally trained" as in trained to be a practitioner in that wicked worldly philosophy called psychology? There is no place for such abominations in the Church!!!!!! We need to stop trying to conform the Church to this wicked world and stop committing treason against God by acting as if this wicked world was actually our home!