You Cannot Know Either Jesus or The Father.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

But I don't know of any verse saying no one can know Him...

ok, I'll try and dig it up, if no one beats me to it--it will basically come down to what one means by "know." I heard a really good sermon about this, that suggested one might come to know Christ, due to "why do you call Me good? No one is good except the Father," but one cannot ever really know God, because Moses had to be shielded to even see God's backside, and some other passages I'm not recalling.

The message being that we serve an unknown God. Any god that any human can fully wrap their mind around--or "know"--would be a false god, iow.

[shazeep]

"9But now, since you know God, or rather have become known by God,"

where "know" here is a different "know" than how God "knows" us; the meaning is that we can only "know of" God.


"In the same way, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

ok, I'll try and dig it up, if no one beats me to it--it will basically come down to what one means by "know." I heard a really good sermon about this, that suggested one might come to know Christ, due to "why do you call Me good? No one is good except the Father," but one cannot ever really know God, because Moses had to be shielded to even see God's backside, and some other passages I'm not recalling.

The message being that we serve an unknown God. Any god that any human can fully wrap their mind around--or "know"--would be a false god, iow.

Know in this context is simply to fellowship.

But there is a difference between Moses and us today, too. 2 Cor 3 uses that very analogy and says the veiled face of Moses stands for the heart veiled until it turns to Christ, which we can do, whereas Moses could not. But I think the transfiguration finally saw Moses see His face!

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

[votivesoul]

Jesus did say "No man knows the Son, except the Father, and no man knows the Father, except the Son, and to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him".

I don't think this makes either unknowable, however. Rather, knowledge of the Father and Son, is given and received, by revelation.

[Sean]

There is no greater revelation of the Son we can receive, as being filled with the Spirit of the Son.

Just to think, that the Son of God resides inside of us....wow!

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Sean

There is no greater revelation of the Son we can receive, as being filled with the Spirit of the Son.

Just to think, that the Son of God resides inside of us....wow!

Amen! Galatians 4:6,

6. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

[Sean]

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

And that is EXACTLY what happens to us when the Holy Ghost comes inside of us!

[shazeep]

all good thoughts!

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Jesus did say "No man knows the Son, except the Father, and no man knows the Father, except the Son, and to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him".

I don't think this makes either unknowable, however. Rather, knowledge of the Father and Son, is given and received, by revelation.

but this seems to come closest to the idea that yes, one can seek God, and even know some small measure of God, but knowing 'like the back of your hand' or whatever, imagining that you have some perfect inviolable all-encompassing truth, is deception. "Love" might come closest, but even then we have just replaced one poorly understood concept with another, imo.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Jesus did say "No man knows the Son, except the Father, and no man knows the Father, except the Son, and to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him".

I don't think this makes either unknowable, however. Rather, knowledge of the Father and Son, is given and received, by revelation.

Amen. The Son reveals the Father to us, so that we do indeed know Him.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

all good thoughts!
but this seems to come closest to the idea that yes, one can seek God, and even know some small measure of God, but knowing 'like the back of your hand' or whatever, imagining that you have some perfect inviolable all-encompassing truth, is deception. "Love" might come closest, but even then we have just replaced one poorly understood concept with another, imo.

We cannot fully know the infinite.