What's your AUTHORITY?

[n david]

Since you've kindly critiqued what people have posted, may I ask, what is your method?

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Honestly, I have been thinking that most "apostolics" do not have any solid framework within which to learn scripture and determine doctrine and practice. The responses so far seem to bear that out.
What I mean is this: OPs have not defined any reasonable, systematic, consistent method for determine faith and practice. Instead, we are, as a movement, highly inconsistent in our approach to scripture and the faith. Inconsistent not only with one another, but with ourselves, even.
Thus we have the following results:
Practically no unity in faith except in literally one or two, maybe three beliefs.
No unity in regards to several important practices (including "standards").
Unity in large measure regarding certain practices, but no rational and scripturally consistent explanation for why it is so. (In other words, traditions we keep without really knowing or understanding where they come from or why we keep them.)
Lots of private conjecture being propagated as doctrine, as binding, as obligatory, as truth, without any solid scriptural basis and usually in opposition to all the other private conjectures floating around.
"Just trust me, I'm the pastor" attitudes.
A lack of united front against heresies. We don't really have a clear and consistent mechanism for even identifying heresies in our own midst, let alone "out there", much less presenting a consistent witness to the truth.
A general across the board inability to maintain a rational examination of doctrine and practice, due to everybody coming at it from a completely different, unharmonized paradigm, point of view, worldview, etc. In other words, we make communication almost impossible because nobody is starting on the same page. We have no common framework within which to discuss or debate, examine, prove, etc. One's refutation is unheeded because the other can't even recognize the argument, for example. People disagree with each other without really understanding how and why they disagree.
And so many different views, doctrines, opinions, everyone screaming to be heard and believed, nobody in agreement... why, isn't that called confusion? And God is not the author of confusion...
So I submit we ought to get crackin' and figure out a reasonable, biblical, and apostolic approach to scripture, that can be taught to others. If the approach or method is correct, then the results ought to be consistent... and consistency is sorely lacking these days.

So, it seems you have identified WHAT is the problem.

Do you have a clue as to WHY it developed? Knowing that would go a long way to
remedying the situation. WHEN that happens, we can then decide on the first
steps to towards rebuilding the foundation that has been neglected...maybe.

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and
some, pastors and teachers...".

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by n david

Since you've kindly critiqued what people have posted, may I ask, what is your method?

I'm still working on that! lol

I am currently trying to determine HOW the apostles used scripture to determine doctrine and practice.

In the meantime, the approach I follow is basically this:

Christ is risen, and I am his disciple (student). He is the Master who explains the Word of God. His teaching is what I need I need to discover and implement. I discover his teaching via the record of the apostles (the NT). They are authoritative in transmitting the teaching of Christ, and their precepts and examples are the authoritative presentation of the doctrine of the Lord.

I see they and Christ upheld the OT scriptures as the words of God by which we are to live, as being capable of making the man of God complete to every good work, as well as being suited for correction, reproof, and instruction in righteousness. The scriptures are to be interpreted according to Christ's interpretation, however, not some other teacher, rabbi, sect, etc.

I see from both testaments that there are commands and examples meant for our instruction. The commands, properly understood in their new covenant context (as determined by the apostles' application and interpretation), are binding, obligatory, "ought to be obeyed". The examples demonstrate either how to obey, how not to obey, or give demonstrations of approved actions and unapproved actions. That in turn informs us of what is acceptable vs what is not.

Examples, however, need to be treated carefully, in order to ascertain the following:

Is this example intended to be an example? Or is it merely a stated fact with no intent to be followed or avoided in similar circumstances?

Is divine approval or disapproval clearly recognisable in regard to the example?

What is the universally applicable principle(s) being demonstrated in the example, so we can apply the example to other similar, but not exactly identical, circumstances?

There are other questions to be asked of an example, of course, but that's a basic idea of what I'm getting at.

Now, there is also the idea of " necessary inference" or "necessary conclusion". A set of propositions may give rise to a necessary conclusion or inference, but it would require extensive and serious investigation to verify a conclusion is in fact necessary, and not just possible or desired.

There are some other principles I believe are stated in Scripture, but I haven't yet fit it all into a comprehensive and step-by-step method or approach.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

So, it seems you have identified WHAT is the problem.

Do you have a clue as to WHY it developed? Knowing that would go a long way to
remedying the situation. WHEN that happens, we can then decide on the first
steps to towards rebuilding the foundation that has been neglected...maybe.

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and
some, pastors and teachers...".

The situation exists for three reasons which conspire together to produce the current condition:

1. A long period of apostasy where truth has to be rediscovered. Many come from various religious backgrounds, and many things need to be unlearned. Many have learned and studied the teachings of various people with various points of view. All this creates a milieu in which apostolic, bible truth is hard to discover without risk of being tainted by a priori assumptions.

2. Teachers have not taught a genuinely apostolic hermeneutic, nor has there been a serious, concerted effort to find it, in general. Some say it cannot be found. Some have other agendas. Some aren't sure how to go about it. Some are searching and making progress, but we haven't fully restored an apostolic hermeneutic to general teaching yet.

3. Americans, in particular, are nowadays suffering from a serious lack of basic thinking and reasoning skills. People are more emotional and heuristic these days, generally speaking. In other words, irrational ("unreasonable") and not prone to sequential thinking processes. Public school methods (developed by the Soviets and imported to the US via the NEA, for example) do not promote logical awareness. Mass media contributes to a passivity in acquiring "knowledge" resulting in a general inability to "prove all things." Fluoride might play a part as well...

[KeptByTheWord]

Even the apostles didn't always agree... reading through the NT shows lots of controversy between the apostles. I think understanding that will help for us to see that even in the best possible situation, disagreements and understandings are going to be present, on doctrine, and application of the principles of the word of God.

For me.... Hebrews 6:1 is the standard that disciples of Jesus Christ can stand on, and hold fast to.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Even the apostles didn't always agree... reading through the NT shows lots of controversy between the apostles. I think understanding that will help for us to see that even in the best possible situation, disagreements and understandings are going to be present, on doctrine, and application of the principles of the word of God.

For me.... Hebrews 6:1 is the standard that disciples of Jesus Christ can stand on, and hold fast to.

Where did the apostles disagree on faith or practice?

Peter and Barnabas got caught up in a hypocritical moment. That was not a "difference of opinion".

The issue of what to do with the gentiles was worked out, in keeping with the tenor of scripture.

What doctrinal differences did they have?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Even the apostles didn't always agree... reading through the NT shows lots of controversy between the apostles. I think understanding that will help for us to see that even in the best possible situation, disagreements and understandings are going to be present, on doctrine, and application of the principles of the word of God.

For me.... Hebrews 6:1 is the standard that disciples of Jesus Christ can stand on, and hold fast to.

How does one get a correct understanding of Hebrews 6:1? People claim that verse yet differ on every single point in that verse.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Where did the apostles disagree on faith or practice?

Peter and Barnabas got caught up in a hypocritical moment. That was not a "difference of opinion".

The issue of what to do with the gentiles was worked out, in keeping with the tenor of scripture.

What doctrinal differences did they have?

We don't really know what caused Paul and Barnabas to separate about John Mark, but there it was, a disagreement, and contention.

Paul and Barnabus disagreed at the Jerusalem with Peter in Acts 15.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Esaias

How does one get a correct understanding of Hebrews 6:1? People claim that verse yet differ on every single point in that verse.

Yes, that is a very good question! It speaks my point exactly. There are always differences of opinion, both in doctrine, and in application, even with everyone agreeing that they believe what one scripture says... yet to each person, that scripture means something different.

[KeptByTheWord]

I think it comes down personally with what the Lord has shown, and revealed to you through your study of the Word, as to what you will be accountable for.

"He whom much has been given, much is required."