Is this "rebellion"?

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by seguidordejesus

If he had a good church board, they could sit down and have a conversation about it instead of whining during a sermon.

Alternatively, he could work at 2 a.m. and let his daughter get some sleep.

Sounds like a whiney-butt.

He was getting $1,500 a month plus a medical insurance stipend and his wife was getting a salary as the church accountant. When the church was struggling financially and the idea of him loosing some of his salary was brought up, he threatened to quit, and the majority of the board backed off (this happened about a month before the "sermon").

Just before his comments in the sermon, he asked if anyone in the church was on government assistance (e.g. food-stamps) and about half the church hands went up. Out of the church's poverty, he was already being supported as much as possible. Later on (not during the sermon) he said it wasn't about the money.

He also inferred that he was the five-fold ministry. After reading Ephesians 4:11, he asked the church (in the "sermon") "Will you let me do my job?"

This is a person who told a widow in the church to sell her house if she couldn't afford her tithe. When she was dying of cancer, and wanted to have a meeting at her house to share the bad news of her terminal diagnosis, he wanted to rebuke her in front of her family and warn her that she needed to repent for not tithing or risk hellfire.

Thankfully, two of the elders talked him out of it.

I could go on but you get the picture.

[seguidordejesus]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

He was getting $1,500 a month plus a medical insurance stipend and his wife was getting a salary as the church accountant. When the church was struggling financially and the idea of him loosing some of his salary was brought up, he threatened to quit, and the majority of the board backed off (this happened about a month before the "sermon").

Just before his comments in the sermon, he asked if anyone in the church was on government assistance (e.g. food-stamps) and about half the church hands went up. Out of the church's poverty, he was already being supported as much as possible. Later on (not during the sermon) he said it wasn't about the money.

He also inferred that he was the five-fold ministry. After reading Ephesians 4:11, he asked the church (in the "sermon") "Will you let me do my job?"

This is a person who told a widow in the church to sell her house if she couldn't afford her tithe. When she was dying of cancer, and wanted to have a meeting at her house to share the bad news of her terminal diagnosis, he wanted to rebuke her in front of her family and warn her that she needed to repent for not tithing or risk hellfire.

Thankfully, two of the elders talked him out of it.

I could go on but you get the picture.

Sounds like a greedy whineybutt dictator

That's not loads of money, but come on, you can't get blood from a turnip. And in some parts of the country, that'll get you by just fine.

[obriencp]

abuse of authority in both cases.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by obriencp

abuse of authority in both cases.

Thank God our legal system doesn't work like forums.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

He was getting $1,500 a month plus a medical insurance stipend and his wife was getting a salary as the church accountant. When the church was struggling financially and the idea of him loosing some of his salary was brought up, he threatened to quit, and the majority of the board backed off (this happened about a month before the "sermon").

Just before his comments in the sermon, he asked if anyone in the church was on government assistance (e.g. food-stamps) and about half the church hands went up. Out of the church's poverty, he was already being supported as much as possible. Later on (not during the sermon) he said it wasn't about the money.

He also inferred that he was the five-fold ministry. After reading Ephesians 4:11, he asked the church (in the "sermon") "Will you let me do my job?"

This is a person who told a widow in the church to sell her house if she couldn't afford her tithe. When she was dying of cancer, and wanted to have a meeting at her house to share the bad news of her terminal diagnosis, he wanted to rebuke her in front of her family and warn her that she needed to repent for not tithing or risk hellfire.

Thankfully, two of the elders talked him out of it.

I could go on but you get the picture.

I don't know why people put up with this.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

He was getting $1,500 a month plus a medical insurance stipend and his wife was getting a salary as the church accountant. When the church was struggling financially and the idea of him loosing some of his salary was brought up, he threatened to quit, and the majority of the board backed off (this happened about a month before the "sermon").

Just before his comments in the sermon, he asked if anyone in the church was on government assistance (e.g. food-stamps) and about half the church hands went up. Out of the church's poverty, he was already being supported as much as possible. Later on (not during the sermon) he said it wasn't about the money.

He also inferred that he was the five-fold ministry. After reading Ephesians 4:11, he asked the church (in the "sermon") "Will you let me do my job?"

This is a person who told a widow in the church to sell her house if she couldn't afford her tithe. When she was dying of cancer, and wanted to have a meeting at her house to share the bad news of her terminal diagnosis, he wanted to rebuke her in front of her family and warn her that she needed to repent for not tithing or risk hellfire.

Thankfully, two of the elders talked him out of it.

I could go on but you get the picture.

Who was the preacher?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Who was the preacher?

Wait a minute. CC1 is getting blasted for daring to ask about the whereabouts and goings of another preacher, but you want Votivesoul to name this preacher?

Why? So Charnock can come on here accusing Votivesoul of slander and berate him for his post?

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by seguidordejesus

If he had a good church board, they could sit down and have a conversation about it instead of whining during a sermon.

Alternatively, he could work at 2 a.m. and let his daughter get some sleep.

Sounds like a whiney-butt.

That's the problem with most Apostolic churches. There is no real "board" that is a check on the executive branch.

Groups like the AoG and CoG have such boards, but in the last 20 years manipulative pastors have gotten good at having board members who will hold them accountable with those who will be a rubber stamp.

Having served God in both worlds (Trinity and Oneness) i;d say that pastoral abuse is slightly worse in the Apostolic churches, but that's only because the Trinity churches still have a token system of accountability.
To be fair, I've also seen church boards who were determined to tie the pastor's hands no matter what he wanted.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by n david

Wait a minute. CC1 is getting blasted for daring to ask about the whereabouts and goings of another preacher, but you want Votivesoul to name this preacher?

Why? So Charnock can come on here accusing Votivesoul of slander and berate him for his post?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Originalist

That's the problem with most Apostolic churches. There is no real "board" that is a check on the executive branch.

Groups like the AoG and CoG have such boards, but in the last 20 years manipulative pastors have gotten good at having board members who will hold them accountable with those who will be a rubber stamp.

Having served God in both worlds (Trinity and Oneness) i;d say that pastoral abuse is slightly worse in the Apostolic churches, but that's only because the Trinity churches still have a token system of accountability.
To be fair, I've also seen church boards who were determined to tie the pastor's hands no matter what he wanted.

Bad leadership has no denomination, religious, or political label. Bad leadership only is given opportunity to act out its part.