The son’s eternal kingdom?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

"God was IN Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself..."

I believe that "...the Word was God..."; and not only that, but that "...a body hast thou prepared me."
I do not want. nor intend, to separate the Word and God! I understand that God can be manifest as the
son without His glory, but not necessarily without His POWER! Nevertheless, was the POWER not
subject to the Father? "...the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that
dwells in me, he does the works." I also believe that the Son's kingdom will abide forever.

It is in that context that I'm asking: will He reign in his physical image forever; or is the kingdom
forever because WE will reign and judge angels with His POWER and AUTHORITY?
Now this: will the Son divest (disrobe) himself of his humanity to be clothed "...with the glory
which I had with thee before the world was."???

"... and if there be any praise, think on these things."

Jesus will be both God and man forever.

Jesus will never divest himself of his humanity or cease to be human.

He has been glorified with the pre-incarnate glory already - do we not worship him as God? Is he not the very person of God? What other God is there besides Jesus Christ?

The kingdom is eternal because God is eternal. We will be immortal (and thus eternal ie "age-abiding") because God, through Christ, is in us by the Spirit.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

So you're presenting the Lord in the same context as the trinity doctrine.

Of course you don't use the word "trinity": but the idea seems the same. But my question was:

Will God abide in the son, Jesus, forever? Or will the kingdom of the son be eternal due
to the sons and daughters He has “adopted” into is kingdom?

How could you draw that conclusion? In the Trinity doctrine, the Son is a distinct and divine hypostatic reality, existing in perichoretic relationship with the Father, who is Himself a distinct and divine hypostatic reality. Also, they are cosubstantiative, existing as a singular essence.

What I said could in NO way be construed to mean the same thing. Unitarianism would be closer to what I described than Trinitarian doctrine.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Aquila

How could you draw that conclusion? In the Trinity doctrine, the Son is a distinct and divine hypostatic reality, existing in perichoretic relationship with the Father, who is Himself a distinct and divine hypostatic reality. Also, they are cosubstantiative, existing as a singular essence.
What I said could in NO way be construed to mean the same thing. Unitarianism would be closer to what I described than Trinitarian doctrine.

Well, I've heard so many trinies explain their concept in so many different ways...

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Jesus (1) will be both God and man forever.
Jesus will never divest himself of his humanity or cease to be human.
He has been glorified with the (2) pre-incarnate glory already - do we not worship him as God? Is he not the (3) very person of God? What other God is there besides (4) Jesus Christ?
(5) The kingdom is eternal because God is eternal. We will be immortal (and thus eternal ie "age-abiding") because God, through Christ, is in us by the Spirit.

That's a very good response.

Now let me ask:
(1) you said "there WILL be"... He's not now? (But I believe you mean NOW);
(2) Jesus (the man) has been glorified "...with the glory I had with you before the world
was"? That is, to the SPOKEN word before it became flesh?
(3) Yes: I also believe that Jesus is "...the express IMAGE of His person...";
(4) I believe in his NAME. Is it the same, to sayJesus is God, and God's NAME is Jesus?
(5) God's kingdom was eternal even without the presence of sons; is the Son's kingdom the same?

When we judge angels, will it be with Jesus?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Well, I've heard so many trinies explain their concept in so many different ways...

The vast majority of "Trinitarians" that I know explain the doctrine of the Trinity in a modalistic fashion. They're really closer to Oneness than Trinity, they just don't realize it. lol

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

That's a very good response.

Now let me ask:
(1) you said "there WILL be"... He's not now? (But I believe you mean NOW);
(2) Jesus (the man) has been glorified "...with the glory I had with you before the world
was"? That is, to the SPOKEN word before it became flesh?
(3) Yes: I also believe that Jesus is "...the express IMAGE of His person...";
(4) I believe in his NAME. Is it the same, to sayJesus is God, and God's NAME is Jesus?
(5) God's kingdom was eternal even without the presence of sons; is the Son's kingdom the same?

When we judge angels, will it be with Jesus?

1. I meant he will continue to be both man and God forever.

2. Jesus the man has been glorified with the glory that the Word had before becoming flesh. The man has been proven to be the Word incarnate, the Self-Revelation of God Himself to mankind. He is no longer viewed as merely a rabbi, but the " Son of God with power".

3. ...

4. If Jesus Christ is God then God's name is Jesus Christ.

5. The kingdom of the Son is the kingdom of God. It is eternal because God is eternal. There will, however, be a change in the administration at or right after the judgment, "he will deliver the kingdom" to God etc. I do not pretend to know all the implications of that change.

(6.) We will judge angels... and the world... yet all judgment has been committed to the Son. I believe our judging will not be as final judge but as administers of God's judgment (as the JUDGES were in Israel of old).

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

But my question was:

Will God abide in the son, Jesus, forever? Or will the kingdom of the son be eternal due
to the sons and daughters He has “adopted” into is kingdom?

First, I believe it needful to note that when referring to the Christ child named Jesus, and His relation to God, one should ALWAYS insure that the first letter of the word "Son" appears in the upper case, for in so doing it refers to a specific, unique human as opposed to an ordinary person. The language of the Bible ALWAYS makes this distinction, and so should we! As an ordinary human being, like you and I, in the language of the Bible Christ Jesus is always referred to as the "son of man" (note that that word "son" appears in the lower case), whereas when referring to Him as the only begotten of the Father, He is ALWAYS noted as being the "Son of God."

Having stated that, I also believe it important to note the Scriptures contains NO language which describes a "kingdom of the son," nor does it ever mention a "kingdom of the Son." It is now, ALWAYS has been, and it shall ALWAYS be "the kingdom of God"!

If my understanding is correct of that which Paul the apostle wrote concerning the reign of Christ Jesus, the man, as King of kings and Lord of lords, as set forth in the words of 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 [KJV], then there will come to pass a moment in the future when Christ Jesus, the man, will no longer reign as such, but will be subject unto the Father (i.e., "Spirit") in the same manner as all of the "adopted" sons of God. In fact, this is explicitly stated in the words of Verse #28!

"Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." [1 Corinthians 15:24-28, KJV]

We who have been made partakers of the Holy Ghost have received ONLY a limited portion, the "interest" (or what Paul called the "earnest") of our eternal inheritance (Ephesdians 1:14), with the fullness being rewarded NOT at His soon coming glorious appearance, at which time the redemption of our bodies occurs (see Romans 8:22-25), rather at the end of all things when Christ Jesus relinguishes reign and ALL the redeemed of mankind "shall be like him" (I John 3:2).

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Lafon

First, I believe it needful to note that when referring to the Christ child named Jesus, and His relation to God, one should ALWAYS insure that the first letter of the word "Son" appears in the upper case, for in so doing it refers to a specific, unique human as opposed to an ordinary person. The language of the Bible ALWAYS makes this distinction, and so should we! As an ordinary human being, like you and I, in the language of the Bible Christ Jesus is always referred to as the "son of man" (note that that word "son" appears in the lower case), whereas when referring to Him as the only begotten of the Father, He is ALWAYS noted as being the "Son of God."
Having stated that, I also believe it important to note the Scriptures contains NO language which describes a "kingdom of the son," nor does it ever mention a "kingdom of the Son." It is now, ALWAYS has been, and it shall ALWAYS be "the kingdom of God"!
If my understanding is correct of that which Paul the apostle wrote concerning the reign of Christ Jesus, the man, as King of kings and Lord of lords, as set forth in the words of 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 [KJV], then there will come to pass a moment in the future when Christ Jesus, the man, will no longer reign as such, but will be subject unto the Father (i.e., "Spirit") in the same manner as all of the "adopted" sons of God. In fact, this is explicitly stated in the words of Verse #28!
"Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." [1 Corinthians 15:24-28, KJV]
We who have been made partakers of the Holy Ghost have received ONLY a limited portion, the "interest" (or what Paul called the "earnest") of our eternal inheritance (Ephesdians 1:14), with the fullness being rewarded NOT at His soon coming glorious appearance, at which time the redemption of our bodies occurs (see Romans 8:22-25), rather at the end of all things when Christ Jesus relinguishes reign and ALL the redeemed of mankind "shall be like him" (I John 3:2).

That's where I was going!

I refer to the kingdom UNDER HIS REIGN! It must cease AFTER all things are put under His feet:
and the last enemy to be put under His feet is DEATH!
Will the Son's reign end? "...then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all
things under him...". So if the Word, who became flesh, did so by divesting himself of glory,
what is the return of the kingdom but the Word divesting itself of its human form to be glorifed
"...with the glory I had with you before the world was."

"Don't you know that we will judge angels?"

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

That's where I was going!

I refer to the kingdom UNDER HIS REIGN! It must cease AFTER all things are put under His feet:
and the last enemy to be put under His feet is DEATH!
Will the Son's reign end? "...then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all
things under him...". So if the Word, who became flesh, did so by divesting himself of glory,
what is the return of the kingdom but the Word divesting itself of its human form to be glorifed
"...with the glory I had with you before the world was."

"Don't you know that we will judge angels?"

Jhn 8:35
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
*

Heb 7:16
Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Heb 7:17
For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
*

Heb 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever
*


Not one verse says "the Word shall divest himself of his humanity", or that Jesus Christ shall ever be less God than he is today right now.

The verse in Corinthians says he shall be SUBJECT, not " de-deified" or "divested of humanity" or any such things.

Why must people go beyond what is written? I never understood the need...

[mfblume]

Again, the oldest new testament we have from which our bibles were translated were written in uncials with no lower case anywhere.