Why I Am A Futurist - Page 2

mfblume · #11 01-30-2015, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So you and I are both futurists! Now there are things I may agree or disagree with as to other futurists nonetheless we are "futurists".

So why is it you venomize futurists who you agree with and unite with Preterists who do not believe in the future resurrection?

Showing error is not venomizing. But partial preterist is partial futurist. Not full futurist.

Evang.Benincasa · #12 01-30-2015, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Showing error is not venomizing. But partial preterist is partial futurist. Not full futurist.

Partial Preterism believes Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 were completed in the First Century A.D. which would be drastically different then what Michael the Disciple currently believes. I think Michael the Disciple sees a rapture in Matthew 24.

Bowas · #13 01-30-2015, 08:30 PM

This is just something to consider when trying to quantify one holocaust with another.

According to best estimates, there were 97,000 prisoners and 1,100,000 who perished. He also cites a widespread slaughter by the local populations elsewhere where the Jews were disliked including Damascus 18,000 plus their families and Egypt 60,000 plus families.

Best estimate of population of the entire planet in AD100 is <200,000. So it would be equivalent to @35,000,000 Jews being killed today. That is how large a number of people was slaughtered in ad70.

Neither is acceptable, but just to put a perspective on the magnitude of that massacre back then. Not to mention why that happened to them in that generation.

Evang.Benincasa · #14 01-30-2015, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowas

This is just something to consider when trying to quantify one holocaust with another.

According to best estimates, there were 97,000 prisoners and 1,100,000 who perished. He also cites a widespread slaughter by the local populations elsewhere where the Jews were disliked including Damascus 18,000 plus their families and Egypt 60,000 plus families.

Best estimate of population of the entire planet in AD100 is <200,000. So it would be equivalent to @35,000,000 Jews being killed today. That is how large a number of people was slaughtered in ad70.

Neither is acceptable, but just to put a perspective on the magnitude of that massacre back then. Not to mention why that happened to them in that generation.

Bowas, that is pretty good.

Bowas · #15 01-30-2015, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Partial Preterism believes Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 were completed in the First Century A.D. which would be drastically different then what Michael the Disciple currently believes. I think Michael the Disciple sees a rapture in Matthew 24.

There are no rapture or resurrection from the dead mentioned verses in those Chapters.

Evang.Benincasa · #16 01-30-2015, 08:42 PM

I would really like to know about the Exclusive Covenant which will be offered to the Jews in the Millennium. How is it that Romans 11:27 is only speaking about some future covenant which will only be offered to Jews in the Millennium?

Sean · #17 01-30-2015, 08:44 PM

Bowas, Paul was speaking of a rapture in Thess., reiterating the words of Jesus in Mat. 24.....

Lets see if Paul in 1 Thes. 4 and 5 was quoting Jesus about Matt. 24.....

Paul quotes what Jesus already spoke of prior(notice "WE SAY" as in the Apostles say, not just Paul)

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.( this was spoken as the common knowledge of the Apostles)

The catching away parallel...

Matt 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

1 Thes. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The thief parallel.....

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

The drunken servant parallel....

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

Notice the SEQUENCIAL parallels of the 2 passages.

Accidental?

I dont think so.

I think Paul was reiterating Matt. 24 in this passage on Thess.

Evang.Benincasa · #18 01-30-2015, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Bowas, Paul was speaking of a rapture in Thess., reiterating the words of Jesus in Mat. 24.....

Lets see if Paul in 1 Thes. 4 and 5 was quoting Jesus about Matt. 24.....

Paul quotes what Jesus already spoke of prior(notice "WE SAY" as in the Apostles say, not just Paul)

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.( this was spoken as the common knowledge of the Apostles)

The catching away parallel...

Matt 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

1 Thes. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The thief parallel.....

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

The drunken servant parallel....

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

Notice the SEQUENCIAL parallels of the 2 passages.

Accidental?

I dont think so.

I think Paul was reiterating Matt. 24 in this passage on Thess.

Welcome back.

Now answer my questions

I would really like to know about the Exclusive Covenant which will be offered to the Jews in the Millennium. How is it that Romans 11:27 is only speaking about some future covenant which will only be offered to Jews in the Millennium? Where did Jesus and the apostles teach this future Exclusive New Covenant which would only be for the Jews, and for when they would be living in the Millennium?

Bowas · #19 01-30-2015, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Bowas, Paul was speaking of a rapture in Thess., reiterating the words of Jesus in Mat. 24.....

Lets see if Paul in 1 Thes. 4 and 5 was quoting Jesus about Matt. 24.....

Paul quotes what Jesus already spoke of prior(notice "WE SAY" as in the Apostles say, not just Paul)

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.( this was spoken as the common knowledge of the Apostles)

The catching away parallel...

Matt 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

1 Thes. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The thief parallel.....

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

The drunken servant parallel....

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

Notice the SEQUENCIAL parallels of the 2 passages.

Accidental?

I dont think so.

I think Paul was reiterating Matt. 24 in this passage on Thess.

Well I don't know how to tell you this, but I kind of have bad news for you. If you believe Thes and Matt is referring to the same event, you are a full-preterist, since Matt 24's subject is temple destruction which occurred in AD70, so if you claim Matt 24 and Thes. are the same event YOU ARE A FULL PRETERIST! LOL

Evang.Benincasa · #20 01-30-2015, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowas

Well I don't know how to tell you this, but I kind of have bad news for you. If you believe Thes and Matt is referring to the same event, you are a full-preterist, since Matt 24's subject is temple destruction which occurred in AD70, so if you claim Matt 24 and Thes. are the same event YOU ARE A FULL PRETERIST!

I don't know of any Full Preterists who believe in an Exclusive New Covenant which will be offered to Jews in the Millennium?