For God to be love, He has to be a Trinity!?!

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

e you spoeking f I've heard this type of argument as a proof for the doctrine of the Trinity a number of times. I don't find it c, OR DO YOUompelling. I was just wondering how others would respond to it.

Are you speaking for Greg Boyd, as a trinitarian, or do you have thoughts of your own?

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I think the analogy of the church being his bride is over emphasized.

There is much more emphasis on the church being his adopted sons and daughters, a reality instead of an analogy.

I wouldn't so much say overemphasized, as much as misunderstood. The church is His bride, however we are not. We are the sons and daughters, which the church - as His bride - has "birthed".

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Are you speaking for Greg Boyd, as a trinitarian, or do you have thoughts of your own?

For myself, I don't find Boyd's argument (that "God is love" entails the doctrine of the trinity) compelling. The "single consciousness" which is evidently displayed in the Old Testament (instead of three consciousnesses) can be love, just, good, holy,...etc, absolutely complete in himself without the need to express those attributes.

I believe God knew that Adam being alone was not "good", Gen 2:18, from His own personal experience and is why He chose to create. If God was a Trinity, there would be no reason to create and bring the grief that would come about by creating creatures in his image with a free will to chose contrary to God's will. Instead God could eternally enjoy the love of the threesome never knowing or experiencing aloneness.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Wondering how you all would answer this assertion.

Funny how it goes from "Love isn’t merely an attribute God has. Nor is love merely an activity God does. Love is what God eternally is."

To

"Love can only exist between persons", which is an activity

He sort of proves Love does not require activity, but rather God just IS Love.

God IS Love is not the same as "God Loves (Activity)"

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Funny how it goes from "Love isn’t merely an attribute God has. Nor is love merely an activity God does. Love is what God eternally is."

To

"Love can only exist between persons", which is an activity

He sort of proves Love does not require activity, but rather God just IS Love.

God IS Love is not the same as "God Loves (Activity)"

yep

BTW, if you want more context, you can find all of the quotes I used from Boyd on his blog.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

yep
BTW, if you want more context, you can find all of the quotes I used from Boyd on his blog.

Why would we want to????

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Why would we want to????

Although Boyd is a trinitarian (not all trinitarians will be lost), he has excellent thoughts on other subjects like faith/doubt, getting all of our LIFE (worth, satisfaction, significance) from Christ instead of making idols of other things, the kingdom of God being a "power under" and not a "power over" /servanthood toward God and others, the open theology view of God's foreknowledge, strong views on creation care and helping the poor, and he is not a calvinist. But what I absolutely love is his teaching on loving one another the way Christ loved us on the cross...self-sacrificially and indescriminately. He wrote a book on it called, Repenting of Religion, and taught for over 6 months on love at the church he pastors. I've never heard anyone teach on love the way he does. He has an excellent high view of God.

The "love" messages start with the first message "it's all about love" in April and go through the end of the year! Really good stuff. http://whchurch.org/sermons-media/se...9/2002-sermons

He also teaches exuberant, heartfelt worship. Which I call Pentecostal-type worship but others may call it Charismatic...to me it's the same thing. He teaches that water baptism is how a believer becomes part of the body and enters covenant with Christ or becomes "in Christ." He advocates the doctrine of subsequence when it comes to receiving the Holy Spirit. Though I don't agree with him on a few very important doctrines (like the new birth and the oneness of God), he teaches 'how to be like Christ' better than any Oneness preacher I have ever heard! Being like Jesus is the primary goal for every Christian. Seriously, his teaching on love and judgment when I first heard them blew me away! Sometimes I just want to hear about Jesus and not the OT or anything else. Just Jesus.

[KeptByTheWord]

The problem I see with this type of reasoning is that man tries to fit God into his world, instead of realizing that God created this world, and he doesn't need our finite understanding to be who HE is. Man tries to understand God in a humanistic way - such as God was "lonely" and so created for himself two other "beings" so he would understand love is such a bunch of hogwash. Step back from the picture and realize that God doesn't exist in our time frame, understanding, or finite bodies. He created this world because He wanted to, but he doesn't exist by the rules and laws that govern this world.

He is one, and how HE chooses to manifest Himself is something that He can do without our understanding, or even comprehending of how, but we must just believe that HE can do things without it making "sense" to our finite minds.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Although Boyd is a trinitarian (not all trinitarians will be lost), he has excellent thoughts on other subjects like faith/doubt, getting all of our LIFE (worth, satisfaction, significance) from Christ instead of making idols of other things, the kingdom of God being a "power under" and not a "power over" /servanthood toward God and others, the open theology view of God's foreknowledge, strong views on creation care and helping the poor, and he is not a calvinist. But what I absolutely love is his teaching on loving one another the way Christ loved us on the cross...self-sacrificially and indescriminately. He wrote a book on it called, Repenting of Religion, and taught for over 6 months on love at the church he pastors. I've never heard anyone teach on love the way he does. He has an excellent high view of God.
The "love" messages start with the first message "it's all about love" in April and go through the end of the year! Really good stuff. http://whchurch.org/sermons-media/se...9/2002-sermons
He also teaches exuberant, heartfelt worship. Which I call Pentecostal-type worship but others may call it Charismatic...to me it's the same thing. He teaches that water baptism is how a believer becomes part of the body and enters covenant with Christ or becomes "in Christ." He advocates the doctrine of subsequence when it comes to receiving the Holy Spirit. Though I don't agree with him on a few very important doctrines (like the new birth and the oneness of God), he teaches 'how to be like Christ' better than any Oneness preacher I have ever heard! Being like Jesus is the primary goal for every Christian. Seriously, his teaching on love and judgment when I first heard them blew me away! Sometimes I just want to hear about Jesus and not the OT or anything else. Just Jesus.

Are there not enough apostolic men of God that don't have to spin the truth?

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Although Boyd is a trinitarian (not all trinitarians will be lost), he has excellent thoughts on other subjects like faith/doubt, getting all of our LIFE (worth, satisfaction, significance) from Christ instead of making idols of other things, the kingdom of God being a "power under" and not a "power over" /servanthood toward God and others, the open theology view of God's foreknowledge, strong views on creation care and helping the poor, and he is not a calvinist. But what I absolutely love is his teaching on loving one another the way Christ loved us on the cross...self-sacrificially and indescriminately. He wrote a book on it called, Repenting of Religion, and taught for over 6 months on love at the church he pastors. I've never heard anyone teach on love the way he does. He has an excellent high view of God.

The "love" messages start with the first message "it's all about love" in April and go through the end of the year! Really good stuff. http://whchurch.org/sermons-media/se...9/2002-sermons

He also teaches exuberant, heartfelt worship. Which I call Pentecostal-type worship but others may call it Charismatic...to me it's the same thing. He teaches that water baptism is how a believer becomes part of the body and enters covenant with Christ or becomes "in Christ." He advocates the doctrine of subsequence when it comes to receiving the Holy Spirit. Though I don't agree with him on a few very important doctrines (like the new birth and the oneness of God), he teaches 'how to be like Christ' better than any Oneness preacher I have ever heard! Being like Jesus is the primary goal for every Christian. Seriously, his teaching on love and judgment when I first heard them blew me away! Sometimes I just want to hear about Jesus and not the OT or anything else. Just Jesus.

That is wonderful to hear. I've not read his writings or heard him speak, but I believe what you say in that he has an amazing understanding of God, and while he is wrong on this spectrum of the doctrine, you can't just throw the baby out with the bathwater because he doesn't understand the oneness of God ... yet. I believe the Lord leads and guides into all truth, and perhaps, he has just yet to meet someone to lead him into the fullness of the truth of understanding the oneness of God.