[B]Pestilence:[/B] How close?

[Lafon]

thephnzman,

In the first response to your question, KeptByTheWord tendered the question, seeking your understanding of the word "clandestine," to which you hsve yet to respond. I also would enjoy reading your answer to that inquiry, however, seeing the slowness of its coming, I hereby submit its definition as found in Webster's Dictionary:

Clandestine - defined as that which is kept secret or done secretively.

It is acknowledged, of course, that this was not what you intended to imply in your opening statement, but without a response to KeptByTheWord's inquiry then I can only surmise that (perhaps) this was what you meant. If not, I call upon your benevolence to tender an explanation.

Regarding your question submitted to shazeep, i submit the following:

Apostasy - defined as the abandonment or renunciation of a religious (or political) belief.

Spiritual - (commonly) defined as relating to, or effecting the mindset of one whose thoughts are centered upon God and the principles inherent in His written word.

Therefore, I think that "apostasy" could be a type of "pestilence," however, I do NOT believe that this was what our Lord was referring to when He spoke about "pestilences" in response to the apostles inquiry regarding the "signs" one should look for that would indicate the nearness of His 2nd coming (Matthew 24:3).

By stating that "pestilences" would be one of several events which one could construe as such "signs," I believe it worthy of note that He included "pestilences" together with such things as "famines" and "earthquakes" taking place in "divers places," adding that "ALL THESE" (and NOT just one of them) woild be indicative of the "beginning of sorrows" (Matthew 24:7-8).

Based upon "these" statements of the Lord Jesus Christ, it is my opinion (whether it be right, wrong, agree, or disagree" those) of yourself or others, notwithstanding, is respectfully tendered for consideration.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Lafon

thephnzman,

In the first response to your question, KeptByTheWord tendered the question, seeking your understanding of the word "clandestine," to which you hsve yet to respond. I also would enjoy reading your answer to that inquiry, however, seeing the slowness of its coming, I hereby submit its definition as found in Webster's Dictionary:
Clandestine - defined as that which is kept secret or done secretively.
It is acknowledged, of course, that this was not what you intended to imply in your opening statement, but without a response to KeptByTheWord's inquiry then I can only surmise that (perhaps) this was what you meant. If not, I call upon your benevolence to tender an explanation.
Regarding your question submitted to shazeep, i submit the following:
Apostasy - defined as the abandonment or renunciation of a religious (or political) belief.
Spiritual - (commonly) defined as relating to, or effecting the mindset of one whose thoughts are centered upon God and the principles inherent in His written word.
Therefore, I think that "apostasy" could be a type of "pestilence," however, I do NOT believe that this was what our Lord was referring to when He spoke about "pestilences" in response to the apostles inquiry regarding the "signs" one should look for that would indicate the nearness of His 2nd coming (Matthew 24:3).
By stating that "pestilences" would be one of several events which one could construe as such "signs," I believe it worthy of note that He included "pestilences" together with such things as "famines" and "earthquakes" taking place in "divers places," adding that "ALL THESE" (and NOT just one of them) woild be indicative of the "beginning of sorrows" (Matthew 24:7-8).
Based upon "these" statements of the Lord Jesus Christ, it is my opinion (whether it be right, wrong, agree, or disagree" those) of yourself or others, notwithstanding, is respectfully tendered for consideration.

clndestine: "done secretively;
There was no need for me to define; anyone who didn't know could
have researched the definition.

Apostasy: "falling away from"; falling into heresy; (another common
definition)
Pestilence: A usually fatal epidemic disease; a pernicious,
evil influence or agent.
"Spiritual - (commonly) defined as relating to, or effecting the mindset of one whose thoughts
are centered upon God and the principles inherent in His written word."

By the above definition, do you believe that the scriptures are only to be taken literally?
Colosians 1:16__"...by Him were all things created...visible and invisible..." : I take it to mean
natural (visible) realm, and spiritual (invisible) realm.

Do you believe that that which is in the spiritual [realm] can affect that which
is in the natural [realm]?

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Lafon

thephnzman,

In the first response to your question, KeptByTheWord tendered the question, seeking your understanding of the word "clandestine," to which you hsve yet to respond. I also would enjoy reading your answer to that inquiry, however, seeing the slowness of its coming, I hereby submit its definition as found in Webster's Dictionary:
Clandestine - defined as that which is kept secret or done secretively.
It is acknowledged, of course, that this was not what you intended to imply in your opening statement, but without a response to KeptByTheWord's inquiry then I can only surmise that (perhaps) this was what you meant. If not, I call upon your benevolence to tender an explanation.
Regarding your question submitted to shazeep, i submit the following:
Apostasy - defined as the abandonment or renunciation of a religious (or political) belief.
Spiritual - (commonly) defined as relating to, or effecting the mindset of one whose thoughts are centered upon God and the principles inherent in His written word.
Therefore, I think that "apostasy" could be a type of "pestilence," however, I do NOT believe that this was what our Lord was referring to when He spoke about "pestilences" in response to the apostles inquiry regarding the "signs" one should look for that would indicate the nearness of His 2nd coming (Matthew 24:3).
By stating that "pestilences" would be one of several events which one could construe as such "signs," I believe it worthy of note that He included "pestilences" together with such things as "famines" and "earthquakes" taking place in "divers places," adding that "ALL THESE" (and NOT just one of them) woild be indicative of the "beginning of sorrows" (Matthew 24:7-8).
Based upon "these" statements of the Lord Jesus Christ, it is my opinion (whether it be right, wrong, agree, or disagree" those) of yourself or others, notwithstanding, is respectfully tendered for consideration.

clndestine: "done secretively;
There was no need for me to define; anyone who didn't know could
have researched the definition.

Apostasy: "falling away from"; falling into heresy; (another common
definition)
Pestilence: A usually fatal epidemic disease; a pernicious,
evil influence or agent.
"Spiritual - (commonly) defined as relating to, or effecting the mindset of one whose thoughts
are centered upon God and the principles inherent in His written word."

By the above definition, do you believe that the scriptures are only to be taken literally?
Colosians 1:16__"...by Him were all things created...visible and invisible..." : I take it to mean
natural (visible) realm, and spiritual (invisible) realm.

Do you believe that that which is in the spiritual [realm] can affect that which
is in the natural [realm]?

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

There was no need for me to define; anyone who didn't know could have researched the definition.

That's quite true, however, that is NOT what KeptByTheWord asked. The question was "Explain what you mean by clandestine?" And although you agree with its definition, you still haven't "explained" what you "meant" by using it in your initial post.

By the above definition, do you believe that the scriptures are only to be taken literally?

It is my belief that one MUST heed the words of Proverbs 3:5-6, to wit, "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; AND lean NOT on thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him , and he shall direct thy paths." Accordingly, I also endeavor to seek His "confirmation" of that which I accept as my understanding of every passage of the Bible, BEFORE I allow it to be established as an element of my fundamental beliefs.

Seeing that Christ Jesus "inferred" in His remarks to a group of Pharisees that had just finished accusing Him of casting out devils in a man who had been possessed of them, saying He did so by the power of "Belzebub the prince of devils," that the "heart" of a man is his mind, or soul, and NOT the "blood pump" which lies at the center of the chest (see Matthew 12:24, 34-35), then I ALWAYS try, with the aid and guidance of the Spirit, to accept EVERY statement of the Scriptures at its "face value"!

God said it, and I believe it! No passage of the Bible stands in "need" of my "private interpretation" of its contents, for it is true (see John 17:20 and II Peter 1:20-21). Therefore my answer to your question is an empathic YES!

Do you believe that that which is in the spiritual [realm] can affect that which is in the natural [realm]?

I don't grasp the relationship this question has to the theme of your Thread, but in responding I would say yes, absolutely!

According to Paul words of II Corinthians 10:3-5, "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity EVERY thought to the obedience of Christ;" then it is obvious, at least to me, that the things of the "spiritual realm" can effect the "natural realm," and this in either a positive or negative manner, depending, of course, upon whom it is that we allow to guide our "thoughts."

Again, this is where obedience to the dictates of the instructions contained in Proverbs 3:5-6 come into practice, enabling a "sincere" seeker of truth to discern properly between truth and error.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Lafon

That's quite true, however, that is NOT what KeptByTheWord asked. The question was "Explain what you mean by clandestine?" And although you agree with its definition, you still haven't "explained" what you "meant" by using it in your initial post.
It is my belief that one MUST heed the words of Proverbs 3:5-6, to wit, "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; AND lean NOT on thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him , and he shall direct thy paths." Accordingly, I also endeavor to seek His "confirmation" of that which I accept as my understanding of every passage of the Bible, BEFORE I allow it to be established as an element of my fundamental beliefs.
Seeing that Christ Jesus "inferred" in His remarks to a group of Pharisees that had just finished accusing Him of casting out devils in a man who had been possessed of them, saying He did so by the power of "Belzebub the prince of devils," that the "heart" of a man is his mind, or soul, and NOT the "blood pump" which lies at the center of the chest (see Matthew 12:24, 34-35), then I ALWAYS try, with the aid and guidance of the Spirit, to accept EVERY statement of the Scriptures at its "face value"!
God said it, and I believe it! No passage of the Bible stands in "need" of my "private interpretation" of its contents, for it is true (see John 17:20 and II Peter 1:20-21). Therefore my answer to your question is an empathic YES!
I don't grasp the relationship this question has to the theme of your Thread, but in responding I would say yes, absolutely!
According to Paul words of II Corinthians 10:3-5, "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity EVERY thought to the obedience of Christ;" then it is obvious, at least to me, that the things of the "spiritual realm" can effect the "natural realm," and this in either a positive or negative manner, depending, of course, upon whom it is that we allow to guide our "thoughts."
Again, this is where obedience to the dictates of the instructions contained in Proverbs 3:5-6 come into practice, enabling a "sincere" seeker of truth to discern properly between truth and error.

God has many promises in the Old Testament; for example, Prov. 3:5-6 and Psa. 50:23__One is a promise
to direct our paths; the other, a promise to show us the salvation of God. Both are conditional promises. I must meet
three conditions on one promise; and one condition for the second promise.

[shazeep]

a popular conspiracy theory at the moment is that the US created the ebola virus, in some lab in S Africa...there is quite the chain of evidence for this, i must admit. Don't know if it's true or not, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by shazeep

a popular conspiracy theory at the moment is that the US created the ebola virus, in some lab in S Africa...there is quite the chain of evidence for this, i must admit. Don't know if it's true or not, but it wouldn't surprise me.

There is certainly enough circumstantial evidence for the Ebola and HIV viruses regarding their origin. Does not the Old Testament
warn us against touching a dead body?

How do you think that most pestilences begin? Is it not decaying bodies and direct contact with them?
How do you feel about a person in the depth of unrepentant sin, could it cause a "spiritual" pestilence in the church?

[shazeep]

hmm well, i don't know that we haven't completely lost touch with the true definition of "sin" anyway. Imo, if you use $s, you participate in usury, and are therefore sinning. This is quite a stretch for most people. But even @ 10 Commandments type sins, ya, the unrepentant--who, by definition are not the Church, but i get you--in positions of authority would cause what you describe.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by shazeep

hmm well, i don't know that we haven't completely lost touch with the true definition of "sin" anyway. Imo, if you use $s, you participate in usury, and are therefore sinning. This is quite a stretch for most people. But even @ 10 Commandments type sins, ya, the unrepentant--who, by definition are not the Church, but i get you--in positions of authority would cause what you describe.

There is "iniquity", that was first found in Lucifer; who was "...perfect in all your ways..."
and there is "sin", committed by Adam and Eve: who tried "covering their nakedness";

In layman's terms:
Iniquity is the knowledge of truth and rebelling against it;
Sin is not knowing the truth, and trying to do right the wrong way.
(Truth would be eating of the Tree of Life!)

There is also a difference between "unbelievers" and "non-repentant.
Unbelievers AND believers can BOTH be unrepentant.