Freedom From Religion Wins Suit Against IRS

[n david]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Think through the implications of what you are saying.
The effect would be disastrous as indicated above.
Also, you would have a side effect of millions of people that give to churches suffering an immediate loss of income, due to paying higher taxes.
Methinks you have not thought this totally through...

I have thought through the implications. This has been a long process of thought and discussions with other. I used to be of your opinion -- that it would be disastrous and a sign of persecution; however, I'm beginning to see that the good would far outweigh the bad.

Again, yes, thousands of churches would likely close. But are we christians because of buildings only? IMO, this would separate the wheat from the chaff. The mega churches and prosperity pimps would suffer most because of their materialistic lifestyle. But the end result would be people loosed to spread the gospel outside of buildings.

I don't believe the majority of people would see much, if any, increase in taxes. Per H&R block, 2 out of 3 taxpayers choose standard deductions, the reason being the majority get more from the standard deduction than with itemized deductions.

I didn't say it would be easy or without a bit of turbulence. But I believe without a doubt, the end result would be a great thing for the body of Christ.

[good samaritan]

If people who go to church aren't doing a work for God on a daily basis, then closing the church doors isn't going to change them. Instead, we need to keep teaching what it is to be a Christian. P.S. I believe when our country began the separation of church and state it was to keep the government out of the church not to keep the church out of the government.

[good samaritan]

Regardless of our opinions Gods' will is soverign and He knows best. I don't enjoy persecution and don't go around looking for it, but if God has a plan for it, then so be it.

[Dichotomy Girl]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

If people who go to church aren't doing a work for God on a daily basis, then closing the church doors isn't going to change them. Instead, we need to keep teaching what it is to be a Christian. P.S. I believe when our country began the separation of church and state it was to keep the government out of the church not to keep the church out of the government.

With all the death and destruction that's been done in the name of religion, you don't think it's a good idea to keep religion out of the government??? God save the world from religious zealots with power!!!

Did you know that when early converts became Christians they would (and were expected to) resign from both political and military positions? Because it was believed that Christians should not kill, and should not be involved in politics.

That doesn't much line up with today's conservative religious right, does it?

[good samaritan]

The founding fathers of our nation were for the most part Christian in their beliefs and I believe that 100% That is why I believe this nation has been so blessed as it has been.
Also makes you wonder about our nation's future.

I am not saying that the government should enforce Christianity, but our laws should have a basis on morality. homosexuality, abortion, etc. are making roads legally into our nation and whether or not we believe it, are nation "is accountable" to God.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by n david

The bold is what irritates me. Why is it that every election these churches and their Pastors get to promote Democrat candidates with no repercussion from the IRS? There are some which even hand out political pamphlets and use church buses or vans to get people to the polling place.

IMO, the best thing for American churches would be for the government to cancel tax-exempt status for churches. American churches have been pampered and spoiled being tax-exempt, and have built vain monuments and cathedrals. Meanwhile, having tax-exempt status puts a stranglehold on the church to be able to speak out on political issues and candidates (unless it's to promote voting Democrat).

Removing tax-exempt status would also force churches to become better stewards of finances. Mega church hustlers would be forced out of their obscene mansions, lose the stupid maserati's and private planes. Take away these things then see how many really have a burden for ministry and how many are indeed just a bunch of pimps and hustlers.

Excellent response!

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by n david

I have thought through the implications. This has been a long process of thought and discussions with other. I used to be of your opinion -- that it would be disastrous and a sign of persecution; however, I'm beginning to see that the good would far outweigh the bad.

Again, yes, thousands of churches would likely close. But are we christians because of buildings only? IMO, this would separate the wheat from the chaff. The mega churches and prosperity pimps would suffer most because of their materialistic lifestyle. But the end result would be people loosed to spread the gospel outside of buildings.

I don't believe the majority of people would see much, if any, increase in taxes. Per H&R block, 2 out of 3 taxpayers choose standard deductions, the reason being the majority get more from the standard deduction than with itemized deductions.

I didn't say it would be easy or without a bit of turbulence. But I believe without a doubt, the end result would be a great thing for the body of Christ.

Yes, this could be the catalyst that might be able to bring revival... I agree with Aquila... house churches were what the early church had, and where the greatest revivals took place. I am not against having a building for people to meet in, but in America for many it has become a way to live tax-free ... instead of being a ministry, which is what it should be.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl

With all the death and destruction that's been done in the name of religion, you don't think it's a good idea to keep religion out of the government??? God save the world from religious zealots with power!!!

Did you know that when early converts became Christians they would (and were expected to) resign from both political and military positions? Because it was believed that Christians should not kill, and should not be involved in politics.

That doesn't much line up with today's conservative religious right, does it?

Mich - can you give me your source for the early Christians resigning from political and military positions?
If it was that important than please explain the silence concerning Cornelius state after he converted.
Also, the founding fathers would be termed as "religious zealots" in today's society.

[Dichotomy Girl]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Mich - can you give me your source for the early Christians resigning from political and military positions?
If it was that important than please explain the silence concerning Cornelius state after he converted.
Also, the founding fathers would be termed as "religious zealots" in today's society.

I don't currently have access to the book that I read, but this blog provides a good list of quotes from many early Christian writers regarding Military service.

http://taddelay.com/blog/13501343#.U-UKsvldXnA

The Second is the best I could currently find on the not holding public office and why, if you read the bottom two thirds of the page and the first paragraph of the next page, you can see that it was obviously a contested occupation.

http://books.google.com/books?id=vgG...office&f=false

Regarding Cornelius: You could say, if it was so important, why doesn't Peter tell him "Oh, and now stop being a soldier?" I can't fault you there, the Bible is silent on a great many things it could have been a lot more explicit about (if it were actually intended to be a inerrant all-authoritative life manual), but Jesus said many things on the topic...i.e. turning the other cheek, those who live by the sword, die by the sword, and he reiterated the commandment against killing.