Obedience to the Faith

[wordsponge]

Originally Posted by Amanah

For the promise in unto you and you children and all who are afar off.
The promise was given, and ater the passover He told them to wait in Jerusalem and receive the promise. As they were filled with the HG, God gave them a sign, and they began to speak with tongues. The same happened with the gentiles who received the promise by faith, they also began to speak in tongues. Later on the Apostle would write to them and tell them that without the Spirit of God, they were none of His. The Word of God is the seed of faith, when you plant it in your heart, it springs up to everlasting life, and the evidence is for all to see.

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Tongues only???

1Cor.12
[28] and God (Jesus),
has appointed some (gifted Brothers) in the church,
first Apostles, (= Zion)
secondarily prophets,
thirdly teachers,
after that miracles,
then gifts of healings,
helps,
governments,
various tongues (languages)
[29] Are all (members of the body), Apostles?
Are all prophets?
Are all teachers?
Are all workers of miracles?
[30] Do all have the gifts of healing?
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Do all speak with tongues? (Didn’t any of the men pleasers read this?)
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Do all interpret?

Another proof:

Rom.8
[11] But if the Spirit of GOD who,
raised up Jesus from the dead,
lives in you,
(after baptism calling on Jesus from the immersed state,)
GOD the Father,
who raised up Christ (the Mighty God), from the dead,
shall also
(like he did for Christ),
quicken (ENERGIZE- enliven) your mortal bodies,
by his Spirit that lives in you.
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Let us not hurt our anointed brothers and sisters,
by opposing the truth
and out casting,
those whom Christ has accepted,
but he has differently gifted.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for His name.

Paul explicitly demonstrates that grace is received FOR obedience to the faith. Is it because of obedience to the faith or received in order to produce obedience to the faith?

There are three kinds if works that men tend to attempt to produce salvation. Keeping the law of Moses, human merit, and obedience to God. The following scripture demonstrates that grace is received for obedience to the faith.

James demonstrates that a man is 'Justified by works and not by faith alone'. What kind of work justifies a man. It is not Human merit nor is it the keeping of the Law of Moses. A man is justified and saved by the 'work' if you will, of obedience to the faith!

I think James lets us in on that...

James 2:14-24
14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

You'll notice that James doesn't use the law as an example here. Instead James calls our attention to works of love and charity. So, essentially, a person is justified by acts of love and charity and not by faith alone.

We know that James isn't talking about the Law, because just prior to this James writes:

James 2:8-13
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. 11 For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Ah... James is indeed talking about love. Paul summed it up like this:

Romans 13:9-10
For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:14
For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

So, James isn't talking about works of the Law. James is talking about works of love and charity produced out of true faith. A faith that recognizes our call to love our neighbor as ourselves, thereby fulfilling the Law of Christ.

We are not Antinomian (having no law). Our law is LOVE.

[houston]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

We are saved by Grace, which is received through faith, which is demonstrated by works. No works=no faith. Lack of faith rejects grace.
Even when the Law of Moses was still in place, God was looking for obedience above all else.

Define works

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for His name.

Paul explicitly demonstrates that grace is received FOR obedience to the faith. Is it because of obedience to the faith or received in order to produce obedience to the faith?

There are three kinds if works that men tend to attempt to produce salvation. Keeping the law of Moses, human merit, and obedience to God. The following scripture demonstrates that grace is received for obedience to the faith.

James demonstrates that a man is 'Justified by works and not by faith alone'. What kind of work justifies a man. It is not Human merit nor is it the keeping of the Law of Moses. A man is justified and saved by the 'work' if you will, of obedience to the faith!

Just recently taught a family devotion on this very verse (Romans 1:5).

The key to understanding the relationship between obedience and faith is the preposition "for", as in for obedience to the faith...

Here, it is the Greek word eis and it means to, unto, or towards, suggesting a reason of goal. So, Paul received grace and apostleship from God for the reason or goal of bringing all nations into the faith "for the sake of" the name of Christ (Here, "for" is the preposition huper).

So, translations like the ESV or the NASB have it right. If we want to win souls among the Gentiles, we need grace and commissioning.

This does not detract from the need to obey the commandments of God.

As you mention, in James 2, Abraham was justified when he ascended Mt. Moriah to offer Isaac before the Lord. Why?

Because if he had not obeyed, his disobedience would have been counted to him as unrighteousness. So Abraham's literal effort to obey God wrought with his faith to bring about his justification.

Note, however, that this is different than what Paul writes of Abraham in Romans 4. There, there is no obedience, for Abraham simply believed the promise God made to him, and through his inner conviction that what God said was true, God imputed righteousness to him. Why? Simply because he believed.

So then, there are two equally important aspects of justification. There are some things in the Word that are simply received by faith, in which no action or act of obedience is possible. They simply must be believed. Once so believed, God counts it for righteousness.

However, the second form of justification then takes shape. Based on what is received and believed, if and when a response is required by God, then one's justification is determined by what one does.

Note how we are exhorted to "believe the Gospel", but then are told that not all have "obeyed the Gospel". The Gospel must be believed in the heart, or else "obeying" it is futile. But on the other hand, once it is firmly believed in the heart, obedience must flow outward into action as proof of the inward conviction that the Gospel is truth, and that it must be obeyed through application.

This proves the relationship far better, in my opinion, between faith and obedience.

Compare Mark 1:15 with Romans 10:16.

Mark 1:15,

And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Romans 10:16,

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Even in the Greek of the NT, there is a relationship between believe/faith and disobedience, i.e. not obey.

See here:

Believe: Pisteuo, verb: to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in, from the Greek word pistis, which is the noun, from the word peitho, to persuade or induce one to believe through words, i.e. to listen to, obey, yield to, comply with, etc.

Disobedience or not obey: me peitho, to be unpersuaded, not induced into believing; therefore, to not listen to, obey, yield to, or comply with, and etc.

Granted, sometimes there are other or different words behind them in the Greek. Take Ephesians 2:2, where disobedience is apeithia, meaning obstinately opposed to believing, sometimes also translated as unbelief.

Then note how the Greek word for unbelief is sometimes not apeithia, but rather apistia, meaning lacking faith/trust, even to the point of rebellion, especially in terms of the commandments of God.

The point?

All these words are variations of each other, slightly amended in each specific case for the intended expressed meaning. But there is a reason faith, trust, belief, believe, obey, not obey, disobey, and etc. are all interconnected. It's to show us that we really can't separate the two (i.e. faith from obedience). They beget each other. When we have true faith and when we truly obey, it is impossible to tell where one ends and the other begins.