I never have understood the reason for licensing. I spent many years listening to ministers preaching their guts out about pastoral submission and submitting to authority, to have them be Un - submissive to God's word.
I have just realized that, I have to study and pray myself because I can't rely on the preacher to get me to heaven.
In all due respect, you have got a lot of realizing to do if you think the preacher is gonna get you to heaven, Bro. You are just starting on a journey, and I am glad to hear that you are on it. Please read the word of God for yourself. You will find that idea, as well as many others that you no doubt believe, are not there. Ministry is only part of the equation, and is not responsible for our eternal destination.
As far as the licensing situation in your original post... this is simply because preaching has become a business. Being called of God is something many (I won't say all because I know there are those who are sincere) of these young preachers have no clue about. They are simply desiring a glorified authoritative lifestyle, and have no intention of really being the kind of disciples of Christ that the apostles were.
If you are truly hungry for more of the Lord in your life, continue searching, and seeking after Christ. In Matthew 5, he says those who hunger and thirst after righteousness shall be filled.
No one needs a ministerial license from any organization to fulfill the Great Commission of Matthew 28:19 or Mark 16:15.
Most states still require that a minister be licensed or ordained in order to perform a marriage ceremony.
So, depending on what you want to do - ie be a Pastor, Evangelist, etc, you may or may not want/need to be licensed or ordained by either an organization or church body.
Desiring a ministerial license doesn't mean a person is greedy, wanting to be an authoritive jerk, or anything else. It used to be a good thing for which to strive. Since in the past, the licensing came with greater ethical and moral standards, it was a good thing to desire.
Unfortunately, due to personal and moral failures by licensed ministers, and because of a small minority who use their license to abuse; it's no longer looked at with respect. Instead, people think of greed or abuse when it's mentioned.
The church which I attend has mentioned ordaining ministers itself, though the Pastor has said many times what I said above -- you do not need a license to preach the Gospel. Just do it.
The heresy hunters are still with us. Only now, instead of stakes, they use their books and radio programs to destroy those they consider heretics.... I'm concerned that heresy hunting may be turning into leukemia because some cultwatchers seem more intent on destroying parts of the body than healing the body....
I never have understood the reason for licensing. I spent many years listening to ministers preaching their guts out about pastoral submission and submitting to authority, to have them be Un - submissive to God's word.
I have just realized that, I have to study and pray myself because I can't rely on the preacher to get me to heaven.
Licensing was supposed to be for the purpose of KNOWING THEM THAT LABOUR AMONG YOU. I had people walk into church and want to preach, and never knew them from Adam. What would they say>? What did they believe? You couldn't know. So, the basic doctrinal beliefs are guaranteed to be held by a fellowship's licensee, as well as their moral standing etc.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Licensing was supposed to be for the purpose of KNOWING THEM THAT LABOUR AMONG YOU. I had people walk into church and want to preach, and never knew them from Adam. What would they say>? What did they believe? You couldn't know. So, the basic doctrinal beliefs are guaranteed to be held by a fellowship's licensee, as well as their moral standing etc.
Those are good and noble intentions and not bad, the problem is that human beings, being what they are, they are bound to foul up anything created with good intentions.
I am not against licensing, but a license does not stop a false prophet.
When Paul went preaching to the bereans, they did not ask him for his "license" to see if he was OK, instead they searched the scriptures to see if what he preached lined up with the Bible.
by the way if a preacher starts preaching something that is wrong, you as the senior pastor have the right to interrupt the brother speaking and say something like "Thank you brother for your message, and we may hear more of your message later, but we need to wrap up things tonight, or something like that"
I applaud you brother Blume for not allowing anybody to just go into the pulpit, for no preacher should allow anyone to preach from his pulpit, even if that person has a license, until the preacher knows the message that the messenger is bringing.
I would want any visiting preacher, to preach to me first, and then I would decide if I want the congregation to listen to that message.
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**Original Matthew 28:19 Restored**
Those are good and noble intentions and not bad, the problem is that human beings, being what they are, they are bound to foul up anything created with good intentions.
I am not against licensing, but a license does not stop a false prophet.
When Paul went preaching to the bereans, they did not ask him for his "license" to see if he was OK, instead they searched the scriptures to see if what he preached lined up with the Bible.
by the way if a preacher starts preaching something that is wrong, you as the senior pastor have the right to interrupt the brother speaking and say something like "Thank you brother for your message, and we may hear more of your message later, but we need to wrap up things tonight, or something like that"
I applaud you brother Blume for not allowing anybody to just go into the pulpit, for no preacher should allow anyone to preach from his pulpit, even if that person has a license, until the preacher knows the message that the messenger is bringing.
I would want any visiting preacher, to preach to me first, and then I would decide if I want the congregation to listen to that message.
I think it is wise for licensing since it is something we have a responsibility to do in ensuring our flocks are not wolf-in-sheep's-clothing fodder. Of course no safeguard is foolproof. But attempts do need to be made since the bible say s to know those who labour among you.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
I know, it's an easy target. But here is the thing that needs to be understood:
A licensing, religious organization is not the Church. It is a man-made organization, structured around what it believes to be the Church. As such, it is interested in its own propagation, the same as any business or corporation.
In such a model, the business needs to be self-sustaining. One way in which a religious organization, especially a non-profit, sustains itself is through licensing. How? Because licensing costs money and brings in revenue.
So, if a young man wants to be licensed with a religious organization, he will have to do the following:
- Buy all the reading materials (probably well over a hundred dollars)
- If licensed, pay a monthly due, which, on average, can end up being more than $1,000 a year.
So, for one license, the district or state, and therefore by extension, the organization, is immediately guaranteed, off of one licensing, well over $1,000 if not closer to $2,000 a year. If a district has 100 licensed ministers, and if they all faithfully pay their dues, it's a guaranteed minimum of $100,000 every year for the district, not counting all the times ministers, churches, and saints are hit up for money to continue the cause, not necessarily of the Kingdom of God, but of the licensing organization.
So the more people licensed with the organization, the more money is brought in, just by licensing more and more people. And to what end? Many presbyters and district superintendents (and even higher up than that), have no secular work from which to earn a salary. Their financial income often times comes directly out of the dues paid into the organization. So there is a conflicted interest in a district board passing out more and more licenses, since the licensing process bring them more money, which allows for more and more board members to earn an income solely based on the perpetuation of the system.
If no new licenses or levels of licenses are given out in a year, and if five or ten ministers in a district resign their license, immediately, across the board budget cuts would have to take place. That is not self-sustaining. That is not growth. The goal behind the organization becomes thwarted.
So, the resolution? License more ministers to keep the cash flow flowing. Even if they aren't qualified, dignified, sanctified, making their calling and election sure by faithfully doing the work of the Lord.
One young man in my district, when desiring to be licensed, realized he couldn't affirm that he had won any souls on his licensing application. He thought it over, worried that he shouldn't go before the board for a license.
But then he prayed, and he said "God told me I don't have to win souls in order to be a pastor".
He is now the following: an assistant pastor, youth pastor, and district sectional youth rep of the largest section in the state. And guess what? His dad is a pastor, two of his uncles are pastors, and his family in general, has a long, long history in the state. So how did he get licensed?
Easy. All it really takes is a pastor's support, and it's going to happen. And if nepotism is involved, for get about it, it's definitely going to happen.
__________________
For anyone devoted to His fear:
So, the basic doctrinal beliefs are guaranteed to be held by a fellowship's licensee, as well as their moral standing etc.
I must disagree with your "guaranteed" statement. History has shown this to not be true.
Quote:
If a district has 100 licensed ministers, and if they all faithfully pay their dues, it's a guaranteed minimum of $100,000 every year for the district,
License money, at least in the UPC, goes to Missouri headquarters and not the districts. Each district is permitted to make their own rules about separate district dues, which vary from place to place. Some may have a set amount per month/quarter and others may ask for your tithe. What is paid may vary if one is a pastor or a minister but not a pastor. Additionally, each level of licensing is different though they all run about $400 annually.
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