Unmerited Favor?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Carl

How could we be chosen before the world if we didn't exist before the world?

God knew us before we existed

[Carl]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

God knew us before we existed

Then why did he allow us to go astray?

[Carl]

What is the explanation for Titus 2:11 - "The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all, teaching us...." Is grace available to all or just certain elects?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

By "The Greek" what did you mean?

Here is Zodhaites Word Study

Words are defined not by dictionaries only but by context. All Strongs does is list how the KJV translators translated a word, not why.

cháris; gen. cháritos, fem. noun from chaírō (G5463), to rejoice. Grace, particularly that which causes joy, pleasure, gratification, favor, acceptance, for a kindness granted or desired, a benefit, thanks, gratitude.

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I would prefer to have the words defined and then flesh it out with all of the corresponding scriptures than I would to read someone's opinion on what these words are meaning in the context.

Of course, there is a lot that is correct by Zodhiates and others, which I have referenced myself as being in agreement. Yet, I would rather start out with how the word is translated, and not the why.

I don't have any more time to respond today, just wanted to thank you for your input and will, again, re-read your lengthy post.


Of course, I am not against the use of "unmerited favor". MTD has a very good explanation here.

My only thought is that I had ALWAYS been taught that the accurate definition of grace was "unmerited favor" and the actual meaning doesn't allude to that idea at all.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I can tell you the answer.

The Biblical doctrine of unmerited favor is far from what is commonly taught. There really is a sense in which "unmerited favor" is true.

Here is the best example.

9:9 For this is a word of promise, “At the appointed time I will come, and Sarah will have a son.”* 9:10 Not only so, but Rebecca also conceived by one, by our father Isaac. 9:11 For being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him who calls, 9:12 it was said to her, “The elder will serve the younger.”* 9:13 Even as it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”* Rom. 9:9-13

Jacob had unmerited favor. Unmerited because it was given him NOT on the basis of anything he had done. He had not yet been born when it was given him. It was purely based on what God wanted to use him for.

That is the true doctrine of unmerited favor. All that the Lord has ordained to salvation have unmerited favor in that sense. God does not choose to save anyone based on their personal merit.

[Dichotomy Girl]

I'm probably out of my depth here, but it occurs to me that the idea of "unmerited favor" might have come about because the grace of God is given, for lack of a better term, outside of merit.

God blesses, shows favor, gives graciously and with kindness (salvation through the death of Jesus)....and he does that to all regardless of merit, i.e. his grace was available to both Hitler and the Apostle John, regardless of their actions for good or for evil. So if it is available to all, it can not be argued that it's is contingent on merit.

So I think I can see how it began to be defined that way, even though, I agree, the original definition doesn't use or imply "unmerited".

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Carl

Then why did he allow us to go astray?

Free will. Humans are not robots

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I would prefer to have the words defined and then flesh it out with all of the corresponding scriptures than I would to read someone's opinion on what these words are meaning in the context.

Of course, there is a lot that is correct by Zodhiates and others, which I have referenced myself as being in agreement. Yet, I would rather start out with how the word is translated, and not the why.

I don't have any more time to respond today, just wanted to thank you for your input and will, again, re-read your lengthy post.


Of course, I am not against the use of "unmerited favor". MTD has a very good explanation here.

My only thought is that I had ALWAYS been taught that the accurate definition of grace was "unmerited favor" and the actual meaning doesn't allude to that idea at all.

The Greek word is translated many ways (as my quote shows) and then in context is explained as referring to the favor without works we receive from God (as my quote shows)

Strongs does not show you were it's translated. It just shows HOW it was translated in the KJV.. That does not define the word. It shows how it was translated in the KJV

Grace means favor
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/grace

And that favor we received without works

[Carl]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Free will. Humans are not robots

So you don't believe in predestination?

[votivesoul]

You know, Noah found favor with God. We are not told it was unmerited favor, just that he found favor.

The only clue as to a possible reason why is because Noah was a preacher of righteousness.

Had Noah been a maurading lunatic like the rest of the world at the time, would he have found any favor with God?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Carl

So you don't believe in predestination?

I believe in Foreknowledge