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  #11  
Old 12-04-2013, 06:09 AM
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Re: Matthew 7:21-23

Never does mean never in the Greek.

Is it meant literally? That is the question.

Things do seem pretty black and white with the Lord. If one has separated him or herself from God, backslid, become reprobate, has been given over to uncleanness and crucified the Son of God afresh, counted the blood of the covenant an unholy thing, and etc. and then died lost and stands before Christ at Judgment then the person that he or she became, in that moment of Judgment, is never known to the Lord, since upon the apostasy, Christ separated Himself, too, and neither had nor sought out any intimate knowledge of the "dog returned to his [or her] vomit".

Christ only knew him or her as redeemed, when they were walking in and reaping to the Spirit. Once corruption from the flesh was achieved, it's adios muchacho/a, or as the Lord said, "I never knew you".
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  #12  
Old 12-04-2013, 08:01 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Matthew 7:21-23

I think this can work 2 ways. Certainly there are "tares" who preach and claim great signs and wonders altho they are just lying. Christ never knew them.

On the other hand consider this scripture.

Hebrews 11:15-16

15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

When one walks in overcoming faith God is not ashamed to be called their God! Now look at an incident in the life of apostle Peter.

Matthew 26:69-75

69 Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee. 70 But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest. 71 And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth. 72 And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man. 73 And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee. 74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew. 75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

Here three times Peter said he DID NOT KNOW JESUS. Did he not know him? Of course he did. Why did he deny him?

He was now ashamed of Jesus Christ! In those moments Peter was ashamed of being a disciple of Jesus. Tho he started well actually drawing his sword against the enemies of Christ he quickly became ashamed of his closeness to Christ denying thee times he knew him.

Remember what Jesus said here?

Luke 9:26


26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.

Friends many Pentecostal/Charismatic ministers and believers ARE ASHAMED OF THE WORDS OF THE MESSIAH!

Many who pray for the sick and for deliverance are downright ashamed of some very important words he spoke. Like what you may ask?

Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect. Matt:5-48

Type a search on "Perfection" some time. Right here on this site! You will find many basically apologizing for the words of Christ. All over Christendom its the same. Christians who are trying to serve God and yet ashamed of his words.

They like the parts about healing and deliverance. They like the parts about love and grace.

But when it comes to parts about overcoming iniquity they are offended! How do I know this? Because I have seen people do exactly this for many years now.

When is the last time you heard these words of Christ preached?

Mark 9:43-48

43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Why don't Preachers preach this? Something that was very important to Christ. Overcoming iniquity even if it means you have to suffer!

Could it be that they have so assimilated the doctrines and clichés of men they are ashamed to receive the words of Jesus when he is trying to deal with sins in their lives?

It could be they reject the teachings of the Messiah about ceasing from iniquity because they have been deluded into believing their behavior does not matter in the sight of God?

I think THESE ARE THE ONES JESUS ADRESSES at the day of judgment!

They actually believed in Jesus. They actually trusted he would heal and deliver. AND YET.......they received teaching that downplayed righteousness and holiness. It caused them instead of fighting iniquity even to the death to get careless.

They allowed sin to remain in their lives.

At the day of his coming THEY WILL BE ASHAMED.

28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. 1 John 2:28

They will understand the overcoming saints have been gathered to meet Christ. They will wonder why they were not granted a part in the wonderful gathering of saints.

Matt. 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Tho they professed faith in him it was not enough! They did not cease from iniquity.

Now like as when Peter was ashamed of the Lord and denied him Jesus is showing his shame of people who were ashamed of his words.

He is ashamed to be around them. They still commit sin or "work iniquity".

He is therefore ashamed to call them his people!

15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Yes he once knew them. He blessed then expecting they would follow him all the way. They refused so now he is showing HIS DISGUST with them. They could have treasured his teachings and became like him!

Now the meaning of "I never knew you" becomes clear.

The Lord Jesus is embarassed to call them his people! They failed to abide in him now they stand shamed by the very one they once followed. They chose the ear tickling doctrines of men over his pure words. They were ashamed of his words before men, now he is ashamed of them before his Father and the holy angels.

Last edited by Michael The Disciple; 12-04-2013 at 08:07 AM.
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  #13  
Old 12-06-2013, 01:02 PM
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Adino Adino is offline
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Re: Matthew 7:21-23

Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
I see how it may be perceived that the claims were false; that the claimants were liars. But the story is presented as though the claims are factual/accurate (which makes the teaching more alarming, I might add).

The Lord doesn't call them liars and falsifiers, or rebuke them for saying they used His name when they did no such thing.

The Lord rather seems to be making the case that even though what they claimed was true, their personal conduct, by the end of their lives', no matter how they may have been used in temporary situations, was not good enough, since they hadn't done all the will of the Father, even though it's God's will that people prophesy, cast out devils, and perform miracles.
I think Christ did identify this group in verse 15. He said very clearly to beware of "false prophets." It is the false prophets who will make such claims.
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Old 12-06-2013, 04:30 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Matthew 7:21-23

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adino View Post
I think Christ did identify this group in verse 15. He said very clearly to beware of "false prophets." It is the false prophets who will make such claims.
It is NOT at all their claims to miracles that causes them to be sent to Hell.

It is because they would not cease from their sins!

DEPART FROM ME YE THAT WORK INIQUITY!

We have in this day forgotten that ALL who continue in sin will be rejected by Christ. He only accepts those who are overcomers of sin into the kingdom.
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  #15  
Old 12-07-2013, 12:46 AM
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Re: Matthew 7:21-23

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Originally Posted by Adino View Post
I think Christ did identify this group in verse 15. He said very clearly to beware of "false prophets." It is the false prophets who will make such claims.
But what is false about them?

Was it there prophetic utterances, or their inward, moral character, that as Michael is saying, refused to cease from sin?
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