Dire Prophecies and Good Intentions: 6 Years Later

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl

Well, notice that even though I have no bitterness or anger towards people, I am not attending a church (well, at all), but I don't think that I would thrive in that kind of environment either. I fully confess, I do not like being told what to do! (But I am open minded, so if you discuss it rationally with me, I may be persuaded).

In fact, my husband and I joke. I used to consider myself a Libertarian when I was more conservative, because I don't like the government telling me what to do. Now I say that I'm a Narcissistic Anarchist, because I don't want anyone telling me what to do, (But I want to tell everyone else what to do), at which point he tells me...that actually makes me a "Fascist" and I say "You have your labels...I have mine...."

You bring up some good points. A few things actually: Very few people like being told "what to do", those few who DO enjoy it all tend to be a bit creepy. Think of the young Norman Bates from Bates Hotel where he says "Mother, I like it when you tell me what to do". Now I do believe that the same percentage of those who don't like being "bosses around" appreciate getting good direction in life. The difference is the person telling someone what to do is a person who is on a authoritarian kick while the person giving good direction is being a wise councilor. THAT is how a pastor should be, and I have met many who are indeed like that. I've also met more than my share of the first kind.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl

Well, notice that even though I have no bitterness or anger towards people, I am not attending a church (well, at all), but I don't think that I would thrive in that kind of environment either. I fully confess, I do not like being told what to do! (But I am open minded, so if you discuss it rationally with me, I may be persuaded).

In fact, my husband and I joke. I used to consider myself a Libertarian when I was more conservative, because I don't like the government telling me what to do. Now I say that I'm a Narcissistic Anarchist, because I don't want anyone telling me what to do, (But I want to tell everyone else what to do), at which point he tells me...that actually makes me a "Fascist" and I say "You have your labels...I have mine...."

Dichotomy Girl,

Have you ever considered or attended a house church?

[Dichotomy Girl]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Dichotomy Girl,

Have you ever considered or attended a house church?

I considered it frequently back in the day, but never found one in my area.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

What is funny is that my experience is nearly, if not completely, 180 degrees different from yours in that I left the UPC with NO anger toward God Himself. Where my anger did lie, was with the people and more importantly the system. To this day, I despise the pastor-centric form of church where the "man of gawd!" is the ring leader and all his minions play the part of mind numb robots. That doesn't mean I despise pastors as long as they realize where their authority ends and if/when they don't know where it ends, I've also unfortunately realized that most people are too ignorant to understand where it ends either and will blindly follow him, especially once the horror stories start flowing from the pulpit about someone who questioned the "man of gawd!" and was promptly struck down in some manner.

Frantically jumps up and down waving... That is MEEEE!

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl

The Bible: This part I think will be the most upsetting for a lot of people here. This is one of the areas that I struggled with the most. I had a lot of problems thinking of the Bible as the AUTHORITATIVE WORD OF GOD, and the way that most conservative Christians use it as a rule book or instruction manual. I couldn't accept it as that, but I couldn't dismiss it either. So I was kind of at an impasse for many years. Currently, I view it as a collection of writings that show mankind's search for a relationship with God. As such I do not think it inerrant, and I do find it somewhat mutable. (i.e. we don't practice slavery even though the Bible doesn't condemn the practice)

I guess, that I believe that the purpose of the Bible is to encourage us to seek Jesus, to lead us into relationship with Him through the infilling of His Spirit. I think that is what God intended to be our teacher, Guide, and Comforter.

Repentance, Salvation, Hell, Etc.: My thoughts on these are works in progress, as are many other things, because for me it has become about more How to live with the Questions, then it is to needing to know the answers. But I believe that there will be a reckoning and some kind of judgment, but I don't believe that it will involve conscious eternal torment. Which means I don't really focus on repentance and salvation, but more on relationship.

And Standards aren't even on my radar anymore.

I am not a bible literalist... and I know it freaks other Christians out. I also don't buy into an eternal tormenting hell... another thing that makes me an oddball... But I have to live with myself and I just can't lie lie to conform to the popular opinion... So it is what it is. Glad to meet someone else that is willing to say they that they just don't buy it. Thanks.

[ILG]

Ultimately, I found that when it came to God/Spiritual matters I was like this huge wound, and the more I poked at it, the less it healed. So for a few years, 2009 and into the early part of 2012, I avoided anything that had to do with Christianity. I didn't open a Bible, I didn't listen to Christian music, I didn't attend a church ,or listen to any kind of preaching, or pray (in anything but an extremely generic "Oh God don't let me be late" kind of way).

Mich, you and I have traveled very similar paths in this....for me, it has been best to just leave it all. We haven't attended church regularly for a couple of years and, contrary to what some here would say, it has been a great decision for us. I felt like God had to just kick me to get me to finally not go back. It's a story in itself, but is very contrary to what we are normally taught.

I'm not saying I recommend that method for those who have had very negative experiences, in fact it might be a horrible idea, and I'm not even saying it's what God had in mind or wanted for me. But regardless, it worked. Sometime in 2012, I realized that I could hear scriptures, or music, and no long have any of those PTSD-esque trigger responses. That I no longer see through that angry and hurt filter. I'm not bitter, I'm not angry. I'm actually kind of neutral.

I still get PTSD sometimes but have actually been listening to some old Christian music on CD the last few weeks and actually been enjoying it. But I don't see myself stepping foot into a church anytime soon.

So when it comes to Apostolic Doctrine (or Christian Doctrine for that matter), so I still believe any of it?

Oneness: I do kind of think this one is semantics. However, because my only experience in Christianity has been in the UPC, and because I had some very negative feelings towards God at one time, for me it all comes down to Jesus. Jesus being God is pretty much the only thing that I never questioned, where my faith never wavered. When Paul sounds like a Sexist, and the God of the OT is being all genocidal, I just focus on the Character of Jesus. (I really like the verse about Him being the image of the Invisible God)

Baptism: I think it's a symbol, currently I have no feelings mode or formula.

Spirit Baptism & Tongues: This is a big one that people question, that yes, there were definitely times that I've questioned it. I think I posted a thread last year after reading some article about how scientists believe that it is learned behavior, and how that really upset me. But for me, it ultimately comes down to faith, which I believe is a choice. I know that something inside me changed when I got the Holy Ghost. I did speak in tongues. I still speak in tongues...even during the healing years. But I don't claim to understand it. (I confess, I don't love the fact that my husband thinks I'm a little bit crazy.)

The Bible: This part I think will be the most upsetting for a lot of people here. This is one of the areas that I struggled with the most. I had a lot of problems thinking of the Bible as the AUTHORITATIVE WORD OF GOD, and the way that most conservative Christians use it as a rule book or instruction manual. I couldn't accept it as that, but I couldn't dismiss it either. So I was kind of at an impasse for many years. Currently, I view it as a collection of writings that show mankind's search for a relationship with God. As such I do not think it inerrant, and I do find it somewhat mutable. (i.e. we don't practice slavery even though the Bible doesn't condemn the practice)

I guess, that I believe that the purpose of the Bible is to encourage us to seek Jesus, to lead us into relationship with Him through the infilling of His Spirit. I think that is what God intended to be our teacher, Guide, and Comforter.

Repentance, Salvation, Hell, Etc.: My thoughts on these are works in progress, as are many other things, because for me it has become about more How to live with the Questions, then it is to needing to know the answers. But I believe that there will be a reckoning and some kind of judgment, but I don't believe that it will involve conscious eternal torment. Which means I don't really focus on repentance and salvation, but more on relationship.

And Standards aren't even on my radar anymore.

I see some of this quite similarly. Mostly, I find the questions not pressing and not very important. I find God to still be central in my life but I don't really care about much of this stuff anymore. It's an interesting exercise to think about it but I don't think about it too much.

It's good to see you around again! I've always enjoyed your writing.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

What is funny is that my experience is nearly, if not completely, 180 degrees different from yours in that I left the UPC with NO anger toward God Himself. Where my anger did lie, was with the people and more importantly the system. To this day, I despise the pastor-centric form of church where the "man of gawd!" is the ring leader and all his minions play the part of mind numb robots. That doesn't mean I despise pastors as long as they realize where their authority ends and if/when they don't know where it ends, I've also unfortunately realized that most people are too ignorant to understand where it ends either and will blindly follow him, especially once the horror stories start flowing from the pulpit about someone who questioned the "man of gawd!" and was promptly struck down in some manner.

I can get really touchy when people (especially people in authority) start power tripping on me. It gets really hard for me to contain myself....

[Titus2woman]

My only trigger is 'preaching'... the pulpit pounding, screaming, sweating, panting kind especially... I can not, absolutely CAN NOT abide it. About 10 seconds is enough to make me physically nauseous and while I have never pushed it to see I think a solid minute would see me vomit. I never expose myself to that kind of thing any more. I avoid churches with any chance of that preaching style, I don't listen to radio or TV preaching, never, ever, ever.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

My only trigger is 'preaching'... the pulpit pounding, screaming, sweating, panting kind especially... I can not, absolutely CAN NOT abide it. About 10 seconds is enough to make me physically nauseous and while I have never pushed it to see I think a solid minute would see me vomit. I never expose myself to that kind of thing any more. I avoid churches with any chance of that preaching style, I don't listen to radio or TV preaching, never, ever, ever.

Any type of power-tripping that people do against me is a major trigger for me. Since we had preachers, pastors, presbyters, a district superintendent and "saints" all doing things like falsely accusing, stalking, terrorizing through the justice system and smashing our personal stuff......I can get pretty shook up when I sense anyone doing any type of power-tripping. I get very nervous and yet look like a stone on the outside. People can never figure it out. I try very hard not to do this but am not there yet. Every day, though, I improve.

I certainly understand not being able to stand that kind of preaching.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

My only trigger is 'preaching'... the pulpit pounding, screaming, sweating, panting kind especially... I can not, absolutely CAN NOT abide it. About 10 seconds is enough to make me physically nauseous and while I have never pushed it to see I think a solid minute would see me vomit. I never expose myself to that kind of thing any more. I avoid churches with any chance of that preaching style, I don't listen to radio or TV preaching, never, ever, ever.

Originally Posted by ILG

Any type of power-tripping that people do against me is a major trigger for me. Since we had preachers, pastors, presbyters, a district superintendent and "saints" all doing things like falsely accusing, stalking, terrorizing through the justice system and smashing our personal stuff......I can get pretty shook up when I sense anyone doing any type of power-tripping. I get very nervous and yet look like a stone on the outside. People can never figure it out. I try very hard not to do this but am not there yet. Every day, though, I improve.

I certainly understand not being able to stand that kind of preaching.

I would far rather listen to someone teach using scriptures, and proper exegesis, rather than to listen to someone scream for an hour, and when they're done, you don't have a clue what they just said...