The National Debt? Republicans Built That

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by odooley6985

http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/002669.htm

Cant ignore facts. But I am sure some of you will continue to educate me on how things really work.

I'm still waiting for you to share with us your knowledge concerning what percent of all income tax collected by the Federal Government comes from the top one percent of income earners.

[odooley6985]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I'm still waiting for you to share with us your knowledge concerning what percent of all income tax collected by the Federal Government comes from the top one percent of income earners.

I told you I didnt know? Its probably the majority. As a dollar amount they pay more tax than me. Of course they do. As a % amount a lot of them pay the same amount. How is that ok in a supposed progressive tax system? Kim Kardashian made something like 60 million in 2011 and paid the same rate as someone who made 40k. Sounds like their fare share all right.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by odooley6985

I told you I didnt know? Its probably the majority. As a dollar amount they pay more tax than me. Of course they do. As a % amount a lot of them pay the same amount. How is that ok in a supposed progressive tax system? Kim Kardashian made something like 60 million in 2011 and paid the same rate as someone who made 40k. Sounds like their fare share all right.

You don't seem to be too informed for someone who makes such incredible claims about how the middle class are getting smacked. I do know the answer to the question I'm asking you. But I was supposing that you would do some research for yourself. It's very easy to find all of this information. But you don't seem too eager to do so.

[odooley6985]

Originally Posted by Originalist

You don't seem to be too informed for someone who makes such incredible claims about how the middle class are getting smacked. I do know the answer to the question I'm asking you. But I was supposing that you would do some research for yourself. It's very easy to find all of this information. But you don't seem too eager to do so.

I did do some research. I read anywhere from 70-80%. Again though, what rate are they paying? Do you think its ok for some millionaire to pay the same rate as someone who makes 40k a year?

[odooley6985]

I do know that the rich are getting rich and unemployment is still high. What gives? I thought putting more money in the rich's pockets would create jobs?

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by odooley6985

I did do some research. I read anywhere from 70-80%. Again though, what rate are they paying? Do you think its ok for some millionaire to pay the same rate as someone who makes 40k a year?

The top one percent of income earners pay 38% of all federal income tax. The top fifty percent of income earners pay NINETY SEVEN PERCENT of all income taxes. The bottom Fifty percent pay just THREE percent of all income taxes.

Someone who makes 40K a year pays a much lower rate than someone making a million dollar a year salary. But please make sure that you are getting your tax types straight here. We must compare apples with apples. I am referring to federal income tax that is paid from employment. You are probably thinking of capitol gains taxes which are taxed at 14% across the board. So a super rich guy that lives soley off investment income pays the same rate as a retiree that lives on a 401K distribution. But remember that the millionare paid around a forty percent income tax on the money he invested originally. Someone making 40K a year simply does not pay the same income tax rate as a millionare does. Furthermore, even Obama admitted in an interview that raising the capitol gains tax will result in LESS revenue to the government.

Look, I understand your frustration. But giving the government more and more power over our lives is not going to make the poor become richer. The rich already pay a disproportionate amouint of taxes. Taking more and more of their money will not help you and me. No, taxing them less does not ALWAYS mean more jobs created, but taxing them more does always result in less job creation.

There are many factors at work here. A crisis like the housing collapse destroys any benfit from lower taxes. But at the same time, raising taxes during a crisis like the housing collapse makes economic recovery much less likely.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Originalist

The top one percent of income earners pay 38% of all federal income tax. The top fifty percent of income earners pay NINETY SEVEN PERCENT of all income taxes. The bottom Fifty percent pay just THREE percent of all income taxes.

Someone who makes 40K a year pays a much lower rate than someone making a million dollar a year salary. But please make sure that you are getting your tax types straight here. We must compare apples with apples. I am referring to federal income tax that is paid from employment. You are probably thinking of capitol gains taxes which are taxed at 14% across the board. So a super rich guy that lives soley off investment income pays the same rate as a retiree that lives on a 401K distribution. But remember that the millionare paid around a forty percent income tax on the money he invested originally. Someone making 40K a year simply does not pay the same income tax rate as a millionare does. Furthermore, even Obama admitted in an interview that raising the capitol gains tax will result in LESS revenue to the government.

Look, I understand your frustration. But giving the government more and more power over our lives is not going to make the poor become richer. The rich already pay a disproportionate amouint of taxes. Taking more and more of their money will not help you and me. No, taxing them less does not ALWAYS mean more jobs created, but taxing them more does always result in less job creation.

There are many factors at work here. A crisis like the housing collapse destroys any benfit from lower taxes. But at the same time, raising taxes during a crisis like the housing collapse makes economic recovery much less likely.

Another point.

I wonder how much we would save if, even with the ratios that you have presented, people only got back the money they paid in? Every year many people get thousands of dollars in tax refunds over and above what they even paid in... if they paid in anything.

I'd like to know how much we would save if people only got back what they paid in?

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Another point.

I wonder how much we would save if, even with the ratios that you have presented, people only got back the money they paid in? Every year many people get thousands of dollars in tax refunds over and above what they even paid in... if they paid in anything.

I'd like to know how much we would save if people only got back what they paid in?

Very good point!! Let me expand on this a bit.

For the past two years, I've literally slipped into poverty (by the government's definition). While I only pay in a couple of hundred dollars in payroll withholdings, I've recived nearly SIX THOUSAND DOLLARS in EACH of the last two tax seasons!! I'd like my liberal friends on this board to answer....WHERE did all this money come from? It came from those evil RICH people who "aren't paying their fair share!!".

How can anyone say with a straight face that the rich are "opressing the poor"? Dear Lord, what more do want the rich to do for someone like me and millions of others?? Where is the gratitude for what they ARE doing now??

[odooley6985]

Originally Posted by Originalist

The top one percent of income earners pay 38% of all federal income tax. The top fifty percent of income earners pay NINETY SEVEN PERCENT of all income taxes. The bottom Fifty percent pay just THREE percent of all income taxes.

Someone who makes 40K a year pays a much lower rate than someone making a million dollar a year salary. But please make sure that you are getting your tax types straight here. We must compare apples with apples. I am referring to federal income tax that is paid from employment. You are probably thinking of capitol gains taxes which are taxed at 14% across the board. So a super rich guy that lives soley off investment income pays the same rate as a retiree that lives on a 401K distribution. But remember that the millionare paid around a forty percent income tax on the money he invested originally. Someone making 40K a year simply does not pay the same income tax rate as a millionare does. Furthermore, even Obama admitted in an interview that raising the capitol gains tax will result in LESS revenue to the government.

Look, I understand your frustration. But giving the government more and more power over our lives is not going to make the poor become richer. The rich already pay a disproportionate amouint of taxes. Taking more and more of their money will not help you and me. No, taxing them less does not ALWAYS mean more jobs created, but taxing them more does always result in less job creation.

There are many factors at work here. A crisis like the housing collapse destroys any benfit from lower taxes. But at the same time, raising taxes during a crisis like the housing collapse makes economic recovery much less likely.

Everyone hails the Reagan tax cuts when tax revenue was high. Did I read wrong that he tax capital gains at ordinary levels for the first two years of those cuts? Did revenue suffer then? What was unemployment like?

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by odooley6985

Everyone hails the Reagan tax cuts when tax revenue was high. Did I read wrong that he tax capital gains at ordinary levels for the first two years of those cuts? Did revenue suffer then? What was unemployment like?

Yes, that is true. But he changed his mind pretty quickly.

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/01/24/us...gains-tax.html

But for me, it's all a moot point since I think any tax on any income is immoral.