The Bible: Distributist Economics - Page 2

Jay · #11 10-31-2012, 10:00 PM

Further, God commanded that the Israelites do this, because He was their King. You do not find him authorizing the Davidic dynasty to confiscate food, land, or property from the rich to give to the poor. It remained a command for the people to obey willingly without oppressive policies from the rulers.

Further, it this nation, the people are the rulers, not our elected officials in our state and federal capitals. We often lose sight of this fact, but that was what our Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and Articles of Confederation were based on.

Nitehawk013 · #12 11-01-2012, 06:48 AM

Very well said Jay. We aren't under a theistic monarchy.

Aquila · #13 11-01-2012, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Jesus fulfilled the Law. It is finished. Jesus taught us to love our neighbor. He didn't command nations to take care of the poor. The Body of Christ clothes the naked, feeds the hungry, visits the prisoner, the sick, invites the stranger in. Human government fails, always fails. Jesus doesn't. He is bringing justice to the world through His Church. Secular government will never fulfill the purpose of the Church.

The point is... when God crafted a Government... HE chose a distributist model.

Aquila · #14 11-01-2012, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

Further, God commanded that the Israelites do this, because He was their King. You do not find him authorizing the Davidic dynasty to confiscate food, land, or property from the rich to give to the poor. It remained a command for the people to obey willingly without oppressive policies from the rulers.

Actually you're wrong. God sent prophets to rebuke the entire nation for neglecting these precepts all the way up to the time of Amos and Malachi. Duh. Amos clearly draws out that leaders and land owners were in collusion to deny the poor their rights... just as God repeatedly rebuked the nation for usury. Study up.

Quote:

Further, it this nation, the people are the rulers, not our elected officials in our state and federal capitals. We often lose sight of this fact, but that was what our Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and Articles of Confederation were based on.

I know. I'm simply saying that when GOD crafted a nation... HE chose a distributist model.

If we are to have a righteous Christian society... we do well to look at how God defined national righteousness and social justice.

Jay · #15 11-01-2012, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Actually you're wrong. God sent prophets to rebuke the entire nation for neglecting these precepts all the way up to the time of Amos and Malachi. Duh. Amos clearly draws out that leaders and land owners were in collusion to deny the poor their rights... just as God repeatedly rebuked the nation for usury. Study up.

I know. I'm simply saying that when GOD crafted a nation... HE chose a distributist model.

If we are to have a righteous Christian society... we do well to look at how God defined national righteousness and social justice.

You are incorrect. I said that He did not give the human government the authority to enforce this command. It was to be done on the part of the people in obedience to Him. The Davidic dynasty had no authority to enforce that law.

Usury is the charging of interest on money that is lent. God did not approve of this policy occurring between Israelites as they were not to profit from at their brother's expense. That is the direct opposite of a redistributionistic outlook.

Further, just because the grain was there on the ground or in the corners of the field, meant nothing if the poor were not harvesting. Essentially, they 'helped' the farmer in the field, and what they harvested was their wages. This is also not redistribution of wealth. It is mandated seasonal employment.

Aquila · #16 11-01-2012, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

You are incorrect. I said that He did not give the human government the authority to enforce this command. It was to be done on the part of the people in obedience to Him. The Davidic dynasty had no authority to enforce that law.

Jay, then why do we see the prophets rebuking the entire nation and leaders in collusion with land owners NOT to grant the poor their rights??? It is a national code. It was an agrarian distributism. It wasn’t uncommon either. We see it in other ancient cultures. Notice also the poor were being turned away in the gates. The “gates” is where civil cases were often brought up before magistrates. The poor were bringing up the case that they were being denied their rights… and the elders and magistrates were simply turning them away. This is a corruption in an ancient civil law code.

Quote:

Usury is the charging of interest on money that is lent. God did not approve of this policy occurring between Israelites as they were not to profit from at their brother's expense. That is the direct opposite of a redistributionistic outlook.

Not so… in fact, if you study distributism, you’ll notice that notable distributists started credit unions in effort to reduce the cost of interest (usury) on loans, in addition to decentralizing banking, and keeping it local. To the distributist all things belong to God. If God orders one to leave the corners and edges of their crops, if God orders one to pay a poor tithe, if God demands that lands be returned to their family line… these things are God’s to distribute as He so desires. It is up to man to see to it that God’s will is done with God’s resources. It’s a concept known as STEWARDSHIP. So, in distributism… no one is profiting off their brother. They are profiting of God’s blessings and demands for justice regarding His creation.

Quote:

Further, just because the grain was there on the ground or in the corners of the field, meant nothing if the poor were not harvesting. Essentially, they 'helped' the farmer in the field, and what they harvested was their wages. This is also not redistribution of wealth. It is mandated seasonal employment.

For some, it was seasonal employment. I see it a lot like this… in Ohio those receiving public assistance (food stamps) must work a certain number of hours a week or they are “sanctioned” and cannot receive benefits that month. If they drop from the work program, their enrollment is dropped from the food stamp program.

Aquila · #17 11-01-2012, 01:05 PM

Video about Distributism...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRtyOkfpvSI

aegsm76 · #18 11-01-2012, 02:11 PM

Seems to me that I read somewhere that if you would not work you should starve.

Truthseeker · #19 11-01-2012, 02:38 PM

Interesting aquilla wants government to enforce giving to poor but not enforce morality suchas same sex marriage only.

Truthseeker · #20 11-01-2012, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Seems to me that I read somewhere that if you would not work you should starve.

That so legalish! That's my thing a lot of the poor here are not truely poor, they have lifestyle issues or chararcter ones. To me a poor person is one who truely not able to take care of themselves.