Re: IN Senator, "God Intended Pregnant Rape Victim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind
the point is wether conception is a natural biological occurrence or something God ordains. murdock says he doesn't mean that God intends rape but pregnancy. if God intended the pregnancy the it follows that God intended the rape. the two occurrences are connected if God intends it. But if rape is the effect of free will and pregnancy the effect of natural bilogical occurrences then Murdock is an idiot.
Nonsense. God can take evil at the hands of man and turn it into good.
"Ye thought evil of me, and God turned it into good, that he should enhance me, as ye see in this present time, and that he should make safe many peoples;"Genesis 50:20, WB
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
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Re: IN Senator, "God Intended Pregnant Rape Victim
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified
I don't believe God would ever prompt evil; in this case, rape. However, He certainly could allow conception, and it's sad that so many people see that as "evil" or a curse rather than the blessing it could be.
Was God evil in hardening Pharoah's heart to the point that his first born would be killed?
He had to know what was happening, what He was allowing, or even what He was doing, right?
God is Sovereign.
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"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
Re: IN Senator, "God Intended Pregnant Rape Victim
The "Wrath" of God is never evil.
The "Chastisement" of God is never evil.
The "Will" of God is never evil.
God is Just. In giving a woman a miscarrying womb, in commanding the Israelite armies to anhillate their enemies, in forsaking His only begotten Son as He bled and died on a tree, in sending people strong delusions-- God is and will always be Just.
God is Sovereign and He is Just.
I am learning to surrender my hurts to the Sovereignty and Justice of God.
I am a work in progress.
Such is life. Our lives, our country, this hemisphere, this world-- these are all a work in God's Process. The things in life that we perceive to be unimaginably horrible, tragic, and evil are yet a part of God's Process, and thus God's Will.
Who will attempt to hold God accountable?
Who will accuse Him, His Processes and His Will as evil?
Who will judge the Almighty God?
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Last edited by Jermyn Davidson; 10-24-2012 at 04:38 PM.
Re: IN Senator, "God Intended Pregnant Rape Victim
Quote:
Originally Posted by acjcpastor
No, a pregnant rape victim is not God's intention! However, God’s intention is that biology works the way he created it to work. Now, whether conception occurs from love, lust or violent rape, that is not God’s doing, but mankind’s doing. We all know this world has polluted with evil what God intended for good. Of course as Christians we also know that God has a way of taking all of our sin and evil and turning it for good.
I think the point Mr. Murdock was trying to make and the liberal media is trying to spin out of control is simply this; once a life is conceived, first and foremost, we have a moral obligation to recognize that life as a God given, God designed, human life and a spiritual being. No matter how reprehensible its conception, it is NOT a glob of cells or ball of flesh. It is a child who has an eternal God given soul. Once we come to grips with that sobering fact, then maybe we can face the added dilemma. Do we commit further sin by murdering that life? Would it be any “lesser of a sin” than the rape that conceived the life in the first place? I know this is a highly controversial and emotional topic, but let me ask the question; would God not bless that life and use that life regardless of the pain and emotional distress it’s conception brought? Don’t we all have “checkered pasts?” Doesn’t God have a way of transforming us into new creatures and making all things new, regardless of the sin we were born in? Could God give the victim peace of heart and mind as she gives of herself to sacrifice nine months of her life so another family could be blessed with a child they could not conceive on their own? You see, perhaps I’m a clown and perhaps I’m making a horrible statement, but I’m thinking I agree with Mr. Murdock here. God can use a sinful rape and make something good out of it, just like he made something good out of you and of me.
Excellent post.
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Re: IN Senator, "God Intended Pregnant Rape Victim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson
Was God evil in hardening Pharoah's heart to the point that his first born would be killed?
He had to know what was happening, what He was allowing, or even what He was doing, right?
God is Sovereign.
I don't think we disagree here, JD.
God doesn't prompt evil; evil is something that is unjust, simplistically. God hardening Pharaoh's heart can be seen as just. God causing a man to rape a woman would be unjust/evil, assuming we are not talking about some sort of judgment befalling her.
I can't think of scenarios in the Bible where God was the cause of evil. Punishment for wrongdoing or disobedience or, in Pharaoh's case, enslaving and mistreating God's chosen people, is just; not evil.
Was it evil for God to punish Korah and his whole family? And Eliab's sons and their "little children" with them? The answer is that what God does is just; it is never evil, because God is sovereign. IMO, the only time God would CAUSE harm to come to a person would be for the purpose of judgment; that is not to be confused with allowing harm, which is the nature of humanity and God seems to rarely interfere with those things perpetrated by humans and their free will (to be evil).
I pretty much agree with you, except that I don't agree with any wording that says God commits evil. If God does something, by definition, it isn't evil. If God allows a woman to conceive from rape, or if He even causes her to conceive from rape, it is Him turning evil into good. It doesn't mean that He caused her to be raped for the purpose of conceiving. It may mean that He allowed conception to ease her pain. Unfortunately, the modern mindset doesn't allow recognizing an unplanned pregnancy in those terms, and that is tragic, IMO.
Saying that God doesn't commit or cause evil is not the same as saying God never allows or causes harm to befall a person. He has in the past and He may again, for various reasons that usually seem closely aligned with either testing a person or judgment.
Psalm 5:4 "For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee."
Psalm 145:17 "The Lord is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works."
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Last edited by MissBrattified; 10-24-2012 at 05:19 PM.
Re: IN Senator, "God Intended Pregnant Rape Victim
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified
1. You misquoted the Senator. He did NOT say "God intended pregnant rape victim" so you shouldn't have placed that in quotes as if it was a direct quote. Here's what he actually said:
"I struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize that life is that gift from God. And, I think, even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen"
MEANING, the LIFE is what God intended or allowed; not the rape.
2. Anyone who isn't Christian will probably not understand the concept or the belief that God can take something evil and turn it to good.
3. Anyone who sees a baby as a blessing, and life as a gift from God will understand the meaning in point #2.
4. Anyone who sees a baby as a burden or a curse will fail to comprehend.
I completely understand what the Senator was saying, and I tend to agree. Again, those who see a pregnancy as a curse will not be able to comprehend WHY it could be good coming from evil.
This is not a misstatement on the part of the Senator; it is a reflection of how different conservative values are from liberal values.
Re: IN Senator, "God Intended Pregnant Rape Victim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind
the point is wether conception is a natural biological occurrence or something God ordains. murdock says he doesn't mean that God intends rape but pregnancy. if God intended the pregnancy the it follows that God intended the rape. the two occurrences are connected if God intends it. But if rape is the effect of free will and pregnancy the effect of natural bilogical occurrences then Murdock is an idiot.
the question is does god "intend" or ordain conception or is it a natural biological occurrence.
God ordained a natural biological occurance.
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Re: IN Senator, "God Intended Pregnant Rape Victim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind
the point is wether conception is a natural biological occurrence or something God ordains. murdock says he doesn't mean that God intends rape but pregnancy. if God intended the pregnancy the it follows that God intended the rape. the two occurrences are connected if God intends it. But if rape is the effect of free will and pregnancy the effect of natural bilogical occurrences then Murdock is an idiot.
the question is does god "intend" or ordain conception or is it a natural biological occurrence.
Come on DM, stop being obtuse. you know the point here is not what Murdoc said at all. The point is to embarres the republican and make him look like an idiot.
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Re: IN Senator, "God Intended Pregnant Rape Victim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd
Come on DM, stop being obtuse. you know the point here is not what Murdoc said at all. The point is to embarres the republican and make him look like an idiot.
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If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
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Re: IN Senator, "God Intended Pregnant Rape Victim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd
Come on DM, stop being obtuse. you know the point here is not what Murdoc said at all. The point is to embarres the republican and make him look like an idiot.
Good thing only Republicans say dumb stuff to keep the media going.
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