Knowing The Terror Of The Lord

[bbyrd009]

Spot on

[Jay]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

You're only speaking to Christians in this post. You are not speaking to the lost and the message they hear. There are "pet sins" that some churches seem to preach hard about every. single. time. the. door. is. open. Trust me, that message gets out, loud and clear, that God hates the sin so much the sinner has no chance of approaching Him. I will absolutely NOT name preachers or churches where this kind of thing goes on. I'm afraid if I started, I'd have to type all night.

Even the verse you quoted... "but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil." How do "the evil" dare approach this God?? His face is against them, He doesn't want them, He can't stand them... I know this isn't what you're trying to say, and I know even in some of these churches with the "pet sins" that they spend so much time on, it's not what they're trying to say. But it's very, very hard to hear anything else when the message of judgment is so loud. You really do not have to tell a sinner they've sinned. The presence of God is awesome and the Spirit reveals more deeply than any preacher could ever preach. But it's done in love, that draws a person to Christ, it never pushes them away. Preach the Jesus of love and compassion and mercy and grace and introduce sinners to Him and let Him change their hearts and convict of sin. He does hate sin...because it keeps us from being who we were created to be and keeps us from doing what we were created to do....worship Him.

Please do not think I "go easy" on sin. I absolutely do not. I can't. The cost is too high.

I hear so much of this that it makes me ill. It goes right in with the 'judge not' crowd. I have not heard 'pet sins' preached against in any one church. Many times if there is a single sin being preached against, there is good reason for it (sin in the pew). Many times the preacher is trying to reach a backslider in the pew before that person leaves the church entirerly. I have then heard other messages preached where no sin was named, but the mercy of God was preached, or any number of other topics. (I heard of a sinner who repented, was baptized in Jesus' name, and received the Holy Ghost after sitting through a 'dry' lesson on thithing.)

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Jay

I hear so much of this that it makes me ill. It goes right in with the 'judge not' crowd. I have not heard 'pet sins' preached against in any one church. Many times if there is a single sin being preached against, there is good reason for it (sin in the pew). Many times the preacher is trying to reach a backslider in the pew before that person leaves the church entirerly. I have then heard other messages preached where no sin was named, but the mercy of God was preached, or any number of other topics. (I heard of a sinner who repented, was baptized in Jesus' name, and received the Holy Ghost after sitting through a 'dry' lesson on thithing.)

I'm glad you haven't heard it.

The pastor of the church I was saved in...was saved after a business meeting that he accidentally stumbled into. lol

I will say, this post makes me feel kind of icky. Preaching from the pulpit, publicly, even if not calling the person out, just because the preacher knows there's sin in the pew sounds like somewhere I would not want to attend. But, that's a gut reaction thing. Is there Bible for this kind of approach? The only Bible having to do with dealing with sin among the Church (as in, already saved people) that I can recall says something about going to them privately, then with a few others...does it then go on to say make it public? I can't recall exactly how it reads. And..this is not a "make my point" kind of thing. I honestly want to know. Is there biblical precedence for publicly calling specific sin out like this?

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Its pretty odd. In 37 years of being around Christians I have never heard one Preacher or Teacher ever say Jesus is out there hoping his children will fall so he can hurt or kill them. I DO always hear Christians SAY that they hear this but I have never YET had one NAME THE NAME of one who said it. Probably because such teaching does not exist in the Christian Church.

This may be the disconnect. I'm not talking about Christians, and you apparently are.

As for names..can you tell me what the purpose would be? I *can* start be saying that my mom taught this and it's part of why I have nothing to do with her today. I grew up in a church where I heard this from the pastor's mouth. I also heard it in the first church I attended after I came back to church. I will still not name names.

As well, please consider that I was hearing this as a sinner...not as a Christian. I'd rather be heard through that filter. It matters far more what perception the lost are taking from what is said, regardless of what is intended. Agreed?

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Are there Teachers that say we should fear God if we sin? I have heard a small number teach this and I highly encourage it because it is true and would help many see that God does expect holiness from his people.

I do not disagree with this sort of teaching, I hear it, and I've said it myself.

[jfrog]

Ugh another one of Micheal's sin is never preached posts... What's crazy is yall entertain this which helps cement him that much more in his flawed position.

Ask him to talk about faith or love or mercy or even anything short of sinless perfection because that's what he is really talking about... "sinless perfection".

[Michael The Disciple]

Kept By The Word

We will have BOLDNESS in the day of judgment! Why? Because as we have taken on Jesus and his blood is our covering, God will look at the blood of Jesus on our lives, and mercy will be extended to us.

We must be reading these verses very differently.

1 John 4: 16-18 16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 1 John 4:16-18

John seems to be saying here the same thing he said here:

He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk , even as he walked . 1 John 2:6

There will be no fear on judgment day for those who are living in this world like Yeshua.

Paul did not say at the day of judgment Christ will just have mercy because of his blood. Rather he said THIS in context:

Wherefore we labour , that, whether present or absent , we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done , whether it be good or bad. 2 Cor. 5:9-10

On this basis the Apostle Paul then says:

11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; 2 Cor 5:11

Paul is obviously addressing Christians. Todays Church members dont consider the wisdom of the Apostles words. He said we LABOR that we might be accepted by Yeshua.

The pop teaching of our day says you need do nothing. Jesus did it all.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Could you please name someone whether a Preacher or Teacher who claims to be a Christian that teaches Jesus is waiting for you to mess up so he can kill you?

Its sayings like this that have dulled mens hearts to the truth. The truth is Jesus opposes SIN. Many times men blunt the force of that word by saying they "messed up".

We are so used to hearing cliches we think of them as being true. Jesus is not looking around hoping to find his people in sin so he can punish them. His teachings are given us that we may know how to PLEASE HIM.

If one sets their heart to please Jesus, doing his will they will find favor with him. If they take no heed to separate their lives to him his face will be against them.

10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile: 11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. 12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

The Lord desires fellowship and intimacy with his sons and daughters. Yet he will stand against them if they sin.

You suggest sinners need to know the fear of God, I say His Children and those who call His Name need to be re-acquainted with His Terror and Fire.


His Refining Fire can be terrible when His children are disobedient.

Maybe more Christians, not sinners, but more so-called Christians need to become re-acquainted with the terror of God and His Refining Fire.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Could you please name someone whether a Preacher or Teacher who claims to be a Christian that teaches Jesus is waiting for you to mess up so he can kill you?

I've heard sermons like God doesn't need you to do his work.
God is going to get the 10% tithe from you if he has to get it from the doctor or the mechanic. You may get sick and have to go to the doctor, who may be a tithe payer. Your car may break down and you will give your money to the mechanic who may be a tithe payer.

One time when I was deep in depression, my Sunday school teacher said there were 3 stages of demon possession. 1. Depression. 2. Oppression. 3. Possession.

There was nobody I could turn to in the church during that time period. That would have been all I needed was for the news to get round in that church that I was in the throws of depression.

I am thankful,however, that God has shown me love, mercy and was with me during my time of depression. Had he not been, this teacher would have had me believing that I was in the steps of demon possession. That was 20 years ago and the Lord helped me through one of the worse times in my life.
God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.
(Psalms 46:1)

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

We are so used to hearing cliches we think of them as being true. Jesus is not looking around hoping to find his people in sin so he can punish them. His teachings are given us that we may know how to PLEASE HIM.

I would say that this is something that humans do so that they can feel power over another.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

I'm glad you haven't heard it.

The pastor of the church I was saved in...was saved after a business meeting that he accidentally stumbled into. lol

I will say, this post makes me feel kind of icky. Preaching from the pulpit, publicly, even if not calling the person out, just because the preacher knows there's sin in the pew sounds like somewhere I would not want to attend. But, that's a gut reaction thing. Is there Bible for this kind of approach? The only Bible having to do with dealing with sin among the Church (as in, already saved people) that I can recall says something about going to them privately, then with a few others...does it then go on to say make it public? I can't recall exactly how it reads. And..this is not a "make my point" kind of thing. I honestly want to know. Is there biblical precedence for publicly calling specific sin out like this?

I would say that there are times and places for it. I have seen deep seated rebellion, where they were entrenched in sin, and yet sat on the pew. There are methods for dealing with people, and many pastors refrain from going so far as disfellowshipping a person as they want to continue to reach as long as possible. So they will preach against sin as long as God is willing to deal with the individual.

The method that I believe you are thinking of is if there is a person who has a problem with another person, where first you attempt to make things right, then taking two or three others the second time, and the finally taking it to the church. There are as many variations as there are churches.

[Amanah]

2 Corinthians 5

1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

5Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7(For we walk by faith, not by sight

8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

9Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

11Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

12For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.

13For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.

14For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

16Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.