Faith Without Works...

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

My point was "leave it alone" meaning, don't add to it or interpret it. Leave it as it is "Faith without works is dead"...to illustrate that point I contrasted it with what it does not say "we are saved by faith and works"

Jas 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?

Rev 2:1 "To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: 'The words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand, who walks among the seven golden lampstands.
Rev 2:2 "'I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false.
Rev 2:3 I know you are enduring patiently and bearing up for my name's sake, and you have not grown weary.
Rev 2:4 But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.
Rev 2:6 Yet this you have: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
Rev 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.'

Can that faith save you church of Ephesus without endurance unto the works that are your first love given you?

Praxeas living faith tht saves is faith and works and we are judged righteous just as Abraham according to his Word given us.

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Jas 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?

Rev 2:1 "To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: 'The words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand, who walks among the seven golden lampstands.
Rev 2:2 "'I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false.
Rev 2:3 I know you are enduring patiently and bearing up for my name's sake, and you have not grown weary.
Rev 2:4 But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.
Rev 2:6 Yet this you have: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
Rev 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.'

Can that faith save you church of Ephesus without endurance unto the works that are your first love given you?

Praxeas living faith tht saves is faith and works and we are judged righteous just as Abraham according to his Word given us.

Does this mean you are professing that our works (which James defines in his book) are what determines if we are accepted by God or not?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Praxeas living faith tht saves is faith and works and we are judged righteous just as Abraham according to his Word given us.

No Living faith that saves us is Faith. Faith that does NOT save us is faith without works because there is no such thing as faith without works. That is why it's called "dead"

That's the point. A person that really does have faith will have works. The basis of our salvation though is the faith.

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

No Living faith that saves us is Faith. Faith that does NOT save us is faith without works because there is no such thing as faith without works. That is why it's called "dead"

That's the point. A person that really does have faith will have works. The basis of our salvation though is the faith.

[Pressing-On]

But wasn't there some "obedience" involved. Didn't Rahab obey what the spies told her to do? Didn't Abraham obey what God told him to do?

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

But wasn't there some "obedience" involved. Didn't Rahab obey what the spies told her to do? Didn't Abraham obey what God told him to do?

Yes, yes... faithful people will obey. That's what we've seen in the story.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Yes, yes... faithful people will obey. That's what we've seen in the story.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

But wasn't there some "obedience" involved. Didn't Rahab obey what the spies told her to do? Didn't Abraham obey what God told him to do?

. At the risk of being accused again of being someone that points out what was said or not said, nobody said obedience is not involved.

In fact the opposite is said. Obedience will always be involved because real faith produces obedience.

But the basis of salvation is our faith. God looks at our faith in what Christ did, not our good works...thank God...Because according to Paul all our works are as filthy rags

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

. At the risk of being accused again of being someone that points out what was said or not said, nobody said obedience is not involved.

In fact the opposite is said. Obedience will always be involved because real faith produces obedience.

But the basis of salvation is our faith. God looks at our faith in what Christ did, not our good works...thank God...Because according to Paul all our works are as filthy rags

So any good we do produce is not something can boast of either, for we know it's the Holy Spirit producing that through us -- and sometimes, in spite of us

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

So any good we do produce is not something can boast of either, for we know it's the Holy Spirit producing that through us -- and sometimes, in spite of us

Most certainly in spite of us