The Great One-Step/Three-Step Debate

[Jermyn Davidson]

Bro Blume,

It's not enough to say, "Well it is up to God for your salvation even if you never speak in tongues."


Bro. Blume, our salvation is up to God if we speak in tongues.


Our salvation is actually His Grace, His Way, His Plan. Our redemption is His doing, not ours. That is what makes His Grace so amazing-- He reaches down for us regardless of our position or mindset. He chooses us.

Our salvation is His Will and not our own.


So to use the Sovereignty of God as a cop-out in attempting to explain salvation to the sincere seeker of Christian truth is not acceptable to me.

Neither should it be acceptable to you.


If the Gospel is plain, then the salvation that is an intricate part of that Gospel is plain also.


I love you Sir.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

This is something that bothers me......

Yes, the experience is very real when the presence of the Lord's spirit 'comes over you' (for lack of a better term).

But I have - SO many times - seen people praying at the altar, the spirit of the Lord almost visible all over them. Their face is glowing, you can see that they are feeling the presence and power of God so strongly. They are probably even "stammering". They feel completely changed and renewed. But, because they can't seem to articulate "tongues", we say they didn't get the Holy Ghost.

I guess that's one of the biggest things that bothers me about the "must speak in tongues to be saved" belief.

We have people with their ears pressed to the person's mouth, trying to determine whether or not they utter a full word in tongues. If they can get even a full word or two out, we pronounce that "They got it!!"

Nothing else is different. The power of God is just as strong all around them, but if they don't speak those few words, they didn't get it. Speak those few words, and they did.

It's just so confusing to me.

I believe that's the point of this thread, that is we cannot condemn people who have not spoken in tongues.

[TGBTG]

How about the two-steppers ???

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

I believe that's the point of this thread, that is we cannot condemn people who have not spoken in tongues.

You can say you (three-steppers) are reserving judgment, but in reality, you believe that person must utter those two or three words in another language, or they're not saved.

It seems that in Bro. Blume's summation above, the bottom line is - We don't know.

But how can we NOT KNOW about something so important?? We are placed here on this earth, given a puzzle, and if we figure it out correctly we're in? Figure it out incorrectly and we're doomed forever? How can God have been so vague about something so important?

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

You can say you (three-steppers) are reserving judgment, but in reality, you believe that person must utter those two or three words in another language, or they're not saved.

It seems that in Bro. Blume's summation above, the bottom line is - We don't know.

But how can we NOT KNOW about something so important?? We are placed here on this earth, given a puzzle, and if we figure it out correctly we're in? Figure it out incorrectly and we're doomed forever? How can God have been so vague about something so important?

I think you mistakenly assumed I was a three-stepper because I said "we cannot condemn." I said "we" just to say Christians who believe such.
I however believe we are justified by faith and we have peace with God through faith in Jesus Christ. For me, that is whole point of the gospel. Faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

I think you mistakenly assumed I was a three-stepper because I said "we cannot condemn." I said "we" just to say Christians who believe such.

No, meant 'general you', not you in particular.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

No, meant 'general you', not you in particular.

Ha..

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Cindy

It's not complicated. By faith are we saved through grace. Repentance, baptism in Jesus name and receiving the Holy Ghost is a continuation of our walk with God.

Right. It can be made to look complicated, when it really is not, and when people bring reasons other than what is the point into the issue.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

You can say you (three-steppers) are reserving judgment, but in reality, you believe that person must utter those two or three words in another language, or they're not saved.

It seems that in Bro. Blume's summation above, the bottom line is - We don't know.

But how can we NOT KNOW about something so important?? We are placed here on this earth, given a puzzle, and if we figure it out correctly we're in? Figure it out incorrectly and we're doomed forever? How can God have been so vague about something so important?

There is always the required element of FAITH in ANYTHING to do with God. And so, I go with all the Word says and not look at it as what is not necessary, but "What all can I have?"

But the point in contrasting the positions contrasting two experiences of Spirit from tongues or not is irrefutably unknown.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Bro Blume,

It's not enough to say, "Well it is up to God for your salvation even if you never speak in tongues."


Bro. Blume, our salvation is up to God if we speak in tongues.


Our salvation is actually His Grace, His Way, His Plan. Our redemption is His doing, not ours. That is what makes His Grace so amazing-- He reaches down for us regardless of our position or mindset. He chooses us.

Our salvation is His Will and not our own.


So to use the Sovereignty of God as a cop-out in attempting to explain salvation to the sincere seeker of Christian truth is not acceptable to me.

Neither should it be acceptable to you.


If the Gospel is plain, then the salvation that is an intricate part of that Gospel is plain also.


I love you Sir.

I think it is plain as well. But the two points I contrasted DO NOT have plain positions in the word. And BOTH positions lay claim to salvation. Otherwise, how do you refute my statement about the two listed positions of contrast as I worded them? Are you saying the BIBLE DOES PLAINLY SHOW two different experiences of Spirit indwelling, when I cannot see where4 it clearly does? IOW, please go further than a general statement about KNOWING. Show me the detailed flaw in my thought.